Get used to seeing this, Pistons’ fans. Let’s see Arnie work some magic on these old knees.
If you thought the Pistons’ roster was loaded with wing players prior to the signing of Tracy McGrady, well, it’s even worse now. I’ll be the 35,739th Piston fan who has questioned this move since finding out about it, and I’m likely not the only person who has taken the 96 available minutes between the SG and SF positions and tried to find a way for all of our wings to play.
Honestly guys, I can’t find anything positive about this move. McGrady is a 7 time NBA All Star, he is a scoring champion, he is able to create his own shot, and he has the size to play both the SG and SF positions while also possessing the ball handling abilities to play PG on occasion. What I also know is the team has used a mid first round pick on a small forward (Austin Daye) and 2 second round picks on small forward/power forward hybrids in Jonas Jerebko and DaJuan Summers. Let’s say the acquisition of McGrady runs Summers out of town, you’re still left with Tayshaun Prince/McGrady/Daye/Jerebko. Dumars has also used draft picks on Terrico White while there were other big men available in the draft this year.
(Let’s be honest with ourselves folks, unless Jerebko puts on about 25 lbs. of muscle, he’s not a power forward. At best he’s a tweener who is better suited for playing power forward because he lacks the overall foot speed to keep up with small forwards on the defensive end of the floor).
I am not pleased at all with this pick up. So he comes in and plays well? What happens next? The Pistons use whatever cap space they have next year to re-sign him? He has 0 value on the trade market because if he plays above his contract value, he will only return the veteran’s minimum in contract unless we package him with a “bad” contract. Even then he has limited value because who ever acquires him would not retain his “bird rights” going into the offseason, so they would be stuck paying him a portion of their mid-level exception and/or a significant chunk of their available cap space for a then 32 year old SG/SF who has lost explosion off the dribble and who has a history of injuries.
It’s easy to argue “We gave Chucky Atkins the minimum”, but Chucky Atkins is a veteran point guard who has come off the bench before and who could also, and say what you want about it, serve as a mentor for the younger point guards on the roster. McGrady started to break down again last season when the Knicks played him heavy minutes after they acquired him.
Right now, this roster has even less balance than it had before. Without another move in mind, or agreed to in principle, this move makes absolutely 0 sense. The guy is a talented player, in 2003. Right now, he’s just going to eat minutes from guys who need them to get experience and/or he’s taking up a roster spot from a big man who the team so desperately needs.
Evidently Joe Dumars’ answer for our post problems is Chris Wilcox and Ben Wallace. Monroe is there but, if McGrady is coming in and taking minutes from Daye then who’s to say that Wilcox won’t be taking minutes from Monroe?
I don’t think I can even read this blog anymore. The analysis is downright awful. If you really think that Daye, Summers, and Terrico White will turn into a fraction of what McGrady might be able to do then you live in fantasy land. If McGrady is healthy (huge if) then he gets the minutes. If he’s not (likely) then they go to the youngsters. You can’t expect to compete giving significant time to a bunch of mediocore draft picks. We are talking about two SECOND rounders!
I have been the first one to blast Joe for his boneheadiness in the past. This move seems like a win-win to me. Either McGrady plays a high level and we have a puncher’s chance at the playoffs or he gets hurt and we develop young guys. Bottom line: We’re not going to the playoffs by playing Austin Daye, Summers, or White any significant time.
What’s the point of a “puncher’s chance” when the #1 seed will likely be Miami, the #2 seed will be Orlando and if somehow we luck into the 6th seed somehow we would play any combo of the Bulls/Bucks/Celtics.
What’s the point of a puncher’s chance? A puncher’s chance is trading our players for players who will make an actual difference from Day 1. A puncher’s chance is not signing a guy who will take time away from young guys who, to be completely honest, are at or above McGrady’s current abilities. This isn’t 2004 or 2005. Sure, this year it may be “win win” but what happens this offseason when we can use the MLE to re-sign him? If he improves and plays halfway decent, what cap room does the team use to keep him?
I also don’t get the “mediocre” draft picks comment either. Jerebko is mediocre? He was the team’s best player at times during the season last year. Summers has shown he has the talent to play in the league, when given a chance. Why have young guys on the roster if they’re going to ride the pine behind guys who won’t be on the team after 1 or 2 seasons?
and I never said any of the guys you mentioned would turn into a fraction of what McGrady has done in the past, as his 9ppg last season proved that all the men listed can perform at McGrady’s present day level…
you said it. McGrady can average 30 points per game from 2003-2008 all he wants. It does not help the team last year make the playoffs, it doesn’t help the team this year make the playoffs, and it won’t help the team 2 years from now when our first round draft picks are coming into their prime and needing solid rotation players around them.
This is about the McGrady the Pistons signed today, the one that has to pass the physical in order to even step on the court. The McGrady who was “ready” to play last season when the Rockets kept him on ice, who averaged 9ppg as the only option on a pathetic New York Knicks team. The McGrady who eventually started to break down again after a handful of games in New York. It’s not about his stat sheet or what his jersey sales will be in the Locker Room Store.
I wish it were as easy as you say it is, but unfortunately it’s not. The Clippers didn’t even want the guy, and they have talent that he could be a significant part of and help them make a run to the playoffs. The Bulls didn’t want him either, and they have 0 depth in the backcourt. Funny how an Eastern Conference contender doesn’t want a guy who can come in and be good enough to be a 6th man OR even a 12th man, yet he’s good enough to be a Piston and right thinking Piston fans think it’s just acceptable. This is our team guys… Tracy McGrady is a has been and now we’re supporting his signing with the team. I don’t know when this became acceptable practice of our organization but, evidently it’s commonplace now to expect mediocrity and whether we only pay a portion of his salary or not, he still takes up a roster spot and/or time from players who the team should really be built around.
THis was a great pick up piston fans barring if Mcgrady is healthy.As far as cap space it would allow Dumars to make moves to free up cap space to pick up a solid big man down the road. whether they move rip allow T-mac to start (if he proves to be healthy) while actually giving Ben gordan the bulk of the mins with that hefty contract I would not see a problem.If the chose to re-sign him it wouild be less money then what Rips contract would be holding on to in cap space.
If they move prince on the otherhand they might lose a good defender who only dealt with injury issues this season.At the same time a (healthy) Mcgrady would provide points along with Daye and bringing in Summers to guard bigger forwards would be good experience for the younger players.
Not going to go into big detail, but you’re dead wrong on a lot of this stuff, Boney.
If he’s taking minutes from our young-in’s, then they just need to work harder to beat him out. If he’s not deserving of minutes, that’s coaching failure, not personnel failure.
He will be a trading piece no matter his salary because if a team feels they need him to make a playoff push, they will take any attached salary so long as it’s not too ridiculous (think more Maxiell and less Hamilton).
And finally, the roster went from very unbalanced to very unbalanced. The problem is that it’s nice to say “WE NEED BIG MEN” but it’s a lot harder to actually get them. Free agency wasn’t the answer (how many big men went for the MLE are any better than our current ones), we didn’t have the tradeable assets, and we drafted the best big man available at our draft pick. No one trades big for small without serious assets.
So wait – your second paragraph you say it’s the youngins fault if they don’t beat out McGrady but then you say if McGrady plays over the youngins even if he’s not deserving, it’s the coach’s fault?
So either way, you’re already setting up the excuse machine. Well he’s better than the young guys, well then I ask why are they on the roster? Well he’s playing undeserved minutes, well wasn’t AI playing minutes he didn’t deserve?
This isn’t about names, it’s about building a successful organization. An organization that has a core of players you can build around. Tracy McGrady isn’t going to come in and be last year’s Ben Wallace who sacrifices it all for the team, he’s never done that.
If he takes minutes from the young guys, any success the team has in my opinion is completely wiped away going into next season and we’re starting with a clean slate just like this offseason and last offseason. The signings of Ben Wallace and Bynum to their reasonable deals (not using the MLE and/or the biannual exception on Wallace) started to point me in the right direction towards supporting the moves the front office is making. This McGrady move, without any other move happening, just proves that there is no clear goal in mind going into this season.
You can’t sit McGrady on the bench. You can’t pay a 32 year old SG/SF the full MLE (or more) if he earns it this coming offseason without having a core in place that McGrady fills a need. He doesn’t fill a need right now. He isn’t 6’10 and he doesn’t get 7-9 rebounds a night. He doesn’t even rank higher than 3rd on my SG or SF on the depth chart if I were coaching.
here’s the rub: we did not have enough minutes for the youngsters to play BEFORE we signed t-mac. there are only 144 minutes to go around on the perimeter. even if you limited stuckey, rip, gordon and tayshaun to 30 minutes (setting aside rookie years, these are career low minutes) and bynum just 20 minutes, you only have 4 minutes remaining for daye, white and summers to share. that obviously wasn’t going to work.
is it crazy to assume that a trade MUST happen now? i sure don’t think so. either joe lost his mind (there are exactly enough perimeter minutes for our six G/SF veterans to average 24 minutes apiece, and that’s if daye, summers and white never touch the floor once) or he’s going to make a trade.
if we trade rip for cap relief and picks, slide gordon into the starting lineup and bring t-mac and bynum off the bench, i don’t see how this could be a bad thing. he’ll earn his minutes, or daye, summers and white will pick up the slack. this team had zero chance of success with a backcourt rotation of stuck, rip, BG and bynum.
wilcox taking monroes mins seriously have to be joking me. coach q will give ppl the playing time they earn thats how it is. the trades will happen he can be used as a peice to free up more cap space or we will be trading some of the youngers guys with rip or tay. you guys dont know the whole story so please stop talking about how bad this move is and watch it play out. im sorry jj is too slow to be a 3 i would put him on the 4 and let him gain some muscle. if we started running as a team i think we would be better at the moment. we have a lot of ppl that can handle the ball. if t mac doesnt work out we lost some pennies how is that bad? the upside is so huge. you have to take risks one day, you guys ever gamble?
I doubt Wilcox gets shit for playing time this year. He will be used as much as kwame was used last year and only in desperate situations.
The move for McGrady makes sense if we end up trading one of our wing and guards.
danny you seriously have to let him play. kinda of a prick move to post a pick of the man hurt and say get used to this. casue if he gets hurt a bunch then we wont use him and only wasted 1.3 mil.
it is a prick move, but it was either this pic or a pic of him in his street clothes.
it’s not about the money, you don’t see me complaining about what the team is paying him this season.
there has to be a trade lined up. and its coming real soon. trust me. i still have faith in joe D
reply to Boney,
Its not an excuse machine. Thats reality. If a player doesn’t deserve minutes and is getting them thats a personel problem.
If our young players can’t out perform McGrady thats their problem and should work harder.
I want the best team on the court. Unless we need to lose the last four games of the season :).
AI was playing for Michael Curry and who knew wtf was going on there. Rookie coach who couldn’t bench someone.
I doubt that McGrady is going to be getting a starters minutes. So lets not assume he is going to be taking away from our newbies.
McGrady doesn’t rank 3rd on anyones depth chart thats why he is getting 1.2 mill. Jesuse we payed kwame brown 4 million last year and I’m sure we are paying sucky wilcox more than mcgrady.
I think you should simmer down, the pistons are going to be making any changes or additions that will put them in the running in one , two or even three moves.
Here’s a fact. No one wants to come to detroit…
We have to take who we can get and sometimes that is players that have been given up on. ie. billups, mcdyess, wallace, maybe mcgrady. maybe not. s.
so, Charlie Villanueva and Ben Gordon didn’t want to come to Detroit? Rasheed Wallace didn’t want to come to Detroit, that’s why he re-signed with the Pistons after the 04 season? Antonio McDyess didn’t want to come to Detroit? No one gave up on McDyess, he signed the mid level exception and ended up in Detroit because of Billups and the rest of the guys.
Maybe Dwyane Wade doesn’t want to, or Chris Douglas Roberts.. Detroit’s money is just as green as everyone else’s.
Billups took the MLE to come to Detroit, he wanted to come. He was the best point guard in the market that offseason. IIRC he averaged 13ppg off the bench the season before he signed in Detroit to be a starter because he didn’t want to be a bench player anymore.
Players want to play for Joe Dumars. Allen Iverson wanted to play for Joe Dumars, and has even gone out of his way to not bash Joe when discussing his time in Detroit.
This move blows…seriously blows…it looks good for the price but can anybody honestly tell me how we got better by this move??????
Where is John Hammond when you need him??? Oh thats right, he’s in Milwaukee building a solid team…
reply to boney,
Uh yeah sure they did. Before they realized it was a ghost town. Lets not kid ourselves, detroit does not have the lure that other cities have. And when you aren’t winning its kind of hard to get people to come.
When gordon and V came it was because they thought we were a playoff contender.
Why the hell wouldn’t Rasheed re-sign with the team he just won the championship with. Are you kidding me. Sure everyone wanted to play for detroit when we were winning and in the ECF every year but don’t fool yourself into thinking Joe D has that much draw.
If Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva thought the team was a contender last season, then I question their decision making ability along with the doubts I already have with their shot selection my friend..
Rasheed doesn’t have to re-sign just because they won a ring. Mehmet didn’t, he could’ve taken a salary cut and sat on the bench..
Danny, we’ve had our share of differences, but I think you’re making a really good case here.
word life, son. haha
Thats why Rasheed re-signed. C’mon. I know you can concede that at least.
I think as a Pistons community we should be supportive of new players that come to our team until they give us reasons to do so otherwise.
I think some of our younger guys have some market value so I wouldn’t be surprised if they were packaged off in a trade if we can’t get what we want for Rip and Tay. Although I think Tay should stay. Considering next year we can give him the MLE and and we would be hard pressed to find someone with his skill at that value.
oh so we can give McGrady the mid level exception next season, while we’re still over the cap, and our most valuable players are another year old?
Maybe do a sign and trade with Tayshaun Prince you ask? Before this offseason, one of the most unprecedented free agency periods ever, we saw maybe a handful of S&T moves and that was only to dump draft picks and get trade exceptions in return for the teams Bosh and Bron screwed.
I know why Sheed signed, but let’s be real here.. their money is green just like everyone else’s.
and don’t be so sure about our young guys having anymore value. With the acquisition of McGrady it signals to the rest of the league that there’s likely not much faith in the youth AND that Detroit is now in a position where they have no strength to deal from in a negotiation. Teams can sit back and let Jod come back off his demands for even Tayshaun because, well let’s be honest, there are a ridiculous amount of wing players and the teams can let Tay and McGrady expire and get them as a free agent without having to deal a core player.
Dude, You must be eating pessimism for breakfast.
I guess I’m not sure but I’m not understanding why we would be obligated to give McGrady the MLE next season.
Of course green is a motivator. But just like Cleveland where lebron would have made 30 mill more with its not the only factor.
umm, first… LeBron could’ve signed a 3 year deal with a 4th as an option in Miami just like he did, and after the 3rd year he could make up the difference by signing an extension. He loses some up front money but then again, he finagled a sign and trade anyway so that comparison is lost on me at this point…
I’m not eating pessimism, the guy is our 5th small forward. 5 of 15 roster spots dude. 1/3 of the team. It’s the minimum deal, but I’m not complaining about the money this year.
We’re not obligated to give McGrady the MLE next season but what if he plays well and decides to roll out to another team and we want to pay him more money? We’d have to use the MLE to keep him. We’re over the cap next season. The MLE and the biannual exception are our only free agent dollars to spend, aside from league minimum deals.
Well obviously if he was worth it, it might be in our best interest to pay him! What if? oooooohhhhh
What if he sucks and he doesn’t play and then we are out 1.3 million. Oh nooooo. Oh nooooo. Its not like we are going to the playoffs this year anyway man. Its not like when we took on the remainder of AI’s 21 mill.
Oh noooo the sky is falling. we signed old ass mcgrady to a small ineffectual contract. Now we surely won’t make the playoffs and the season will be worse.
I guess thats what you are trying to get accross. I see now. You are undoubtedly correct and without question the greatest sports oracle to grace Need4Sheed.
I never said anything about the money we’re paying him, I couldn’t care less that the team is paying him.
I care about the roster spot. I care about the playing time for the young players. I care that the team has no direction with regard to player acquisitions. Wallace signed a good deal, Bynum signed a good deal and now this?
really? take a roster spot and/or playing time from younger players? who cares if TMac is better? Will he be here in 2 years when the young players are in their prime? doubtful
I agree with that. But you are trying to look into the future and unfortunately, the team is kind of in limbo right now.
Without a trade in the next year. It won’t matter if we get the #1 draft pick unless he’s a beast. Right now to micro manage the pistons is kind of pointless.
I’m trying to look into the future? Who isn’t?
You draft Austin Daye with your #1 pick last season, and you’re paying him guaranteed money ok. He gets a roster spot. He was rated by many as the best pure shooter in the draft last season.
So now we bring in TMac.
What does that do with Jerebko and Summers, who you have to admit played semi-decent considering how few and far between his chances were.
The team is in limbo but let’s be honest, Ben Gordon is 27, CV is what 25 or 26? Daye is what, 22? The core of this team needs to get younger, and TMac does nothing to improve their chances to compete this year and/or for years to come
Danny,
I read your article, always a pleasure to have something “Pistons-wise” to read in August. I can see why you’d find nothing positive about McGrady signing with Detroit, McGrady and the Pistons are the strangest of marriages. At the sametime, if Tay is traded, Jerebko and Daye aren’t ready to start at SF. If Rip is moved, Gordon could start, but he’s so money off the bench – just give him the starters minutes but keep him in the 6th man role. So, McGrady gives us some insurance, that’s a positive.
I’m not predicting Rip or Tay WILL be moved, but we all know they MIGHT. If & when that happens, this McGrady signing might be viewed more positively.
Danny,
You can’t say that for certain that TMac does nothing to improve our team until things play themselves out.
I’m not saying its a great pickup but I do wait to see what happens before making judgements. I have a feeling we will need McGrady as Friggins suggests in the event we pull a trade off. Which could be halfway through the season.
dude, he will improve the team ok? he provides a scoring ability that is proven that Daye has yet to prove. Daye hasn’t proven his scoring ability yet because he had limited PT last season.
That doesn’t mean stunting his growth by putting McGrady in the lineup helps him or “motivates” him.
Daye is deserving of the 18 minutes at SF that are left after Tay plays 30. Much more deserving than McGrady, due to the direction the team SHOULD be going in.
This is horrible. Natalie, why is this guy writing for your website?
Boney, it’s not an excuse, it’s the truth. If McGrady is deserving of more minutes than our younger players, then who’s fault is that? If McGrady is not deserving of more minutes than our younger players and he’s still playing, then who’s fault is that? It’s common sense, d00d. If the coach is handing minutes to the right guys, then he’s doing his job. Meaning the players not getting minutes have no one to blame but themselves. On the flip side, if minutes aren’t doled out correctly, the coach is the one to blame. He determines who’s on the court and who isn’t.
Also, if we’re going to say that any minutes taken away from the young guys is damaging, then we may as well get rid of Ben Wallace because he’s taking away minutes from Monroe. And before you argue he’s not a center, answer me this: where’s his minutes going to come from? We’ve got 3 PFs all deserving of minutes. He’s going to get most of his minutes at center, and Wallace is in his way. So obviously signing Wallace to an extension was a terrible move by Joe.
3 power forwards who deserve more minutes than Monroe? Who?
CV? ehh, only because he’s a veteran. Maxiell? Don’t get me wrong, I like Max but Monroe’s post ability on the offensive end make up for what little Max provides defensively and offensively combined.
The thing is, Monroe is a rookie. He’s the best post option on the roster right now. There is no reason for him to be buried on the roster, and he won’t be buried unless he screws up.
Daye has shown ability, Jerebko has shown ability. They’re both SF and Jerebko plays some PF as well even though he’s not a true PF.
And if you included Jerebko in your 3 PF comment, I don’t see it. He can line up at the 4 spot in the starting lineup, but he’s not a prototypical 4 and can not guard back to the basket 4s.
in no way shape or form is wilcox getting minutes over monroe.
Here’s an idea – why don’t we see how it pans out? I bet no one here will complain a bit if T-mac is back to his old self we hit owthe fourth or fifth seed in the east. If Daye wants to start he better play better than T-mac? What’s wrong with that? Can’t take it to an old guy with busted up knees? Then sit your ass dn kid! If T-mac sucks then he can ride the pine. What’s up with the hysterics here???
Diogenes,
Completely agree with you. Let the experiment run its course.
ive said all along we are going to be a 5 or 6 seed. mcgrady is a good pickup with or without a trade. cut the man some slack he hasnt even suited up for us yet and we are bashing him already? hes one of us now, embrace him for what he brings to the team not what he could potentially take away from it. boney u need to chill the f out. the fan can have an opinion without you jumping down his throat everytime he says something. maybe you should just leave the write ups to natalie and you can do what you do best, heckle people about any idea or opinion they might have, becuase if its not yours then i guess they are dumb shits right?
If we’re a 5th or 6th seed, I’ll gladly apologize. What I won’t apologize for is my opinion of what I feel is a horrible move. I don’t think I jumped down his throat, or really anyone’s throat. If McGrady averages 8.2 ppg on 38% shooting like last season, it’s hardly a win.
You can have an opinion just like I do. I think it’s a waste of a roster spot if he remains on the team. But hey, what do I know? You’re the genius apparently.
I read on a blog at nba.com that the celtics waived rasheed wallace!
Keep the blogs coming Danny, They are GREAT!!
The 2010-2011 Pistons Schedule is released. They tip it off first with the NJ Nets.
See their full schedule here: http://www.nba.com/pistons/schedule/
McGrady as a Knick
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKcvLFpa_nU&feature=related
He’s far from done, you need to write for a different web site.
Diogenes,
Couldn’t have said it better myself. The “hysterics” are hysterical!
Let’s Go Pistons !
I agree please leave this site or a lot of us will.
Boney,
Why does it take you 30 thousand points to try and get your point across.
Ronnie D and others who feel that way,
Sorry to see you go. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out
GROUP HUG!!!!!!!!!!
lol, seriously guys we are a day into signing Tracy McGrady and he has already polarized the Pistons community. I am definitely reserving my judgment on this signing until I see what the roster is come tip-off. Its nice to have opinions and make prognostications, but no one here has a remote idea about how this will play out.
I hear the positives and negatives. Danny, you make a really good point which is the one I am worried about as well: whether McGrady is a success or not, if he leaves at the next free agency, how has he benefitted the long term goals of the Pistons? If he turns us into a 50 win team, I’ll gladly eat humble pie. The positives are that for 1.3 million we might get a really good year from McGrady that makes us relevant again.
There are many more pros and cons, but can we just let it play out before coming to a judgment? Whether we like it or not, McGrady is a Piston.
Only thing i came up with is that you and Nat are a item so she lets you post your crap and badmouth others and tell them to leave when this isnt even your site. you and tmac suckkkk
Stop arguing…
Much respect for Danny. Wish we had more of you guys posting stuff on this page. Everyone is entitled on their own opinion.
T-Mac is gonna kill Daye’s minutes and how is that a rebuilding move.
I don’t get it, we should play our talented young guys…
I don’t get it… We need a center/point guard…
I don’t get it…
Ok. noobs.
Center : Ben Wallace/ Greg Monroe / Wilcox
PF: Charlie V/ Jonas/ Greg Monore
SF: Tay / Jonas / Daye / Tracy
SG: Rip / Ben / Tracy
PG: Stuck / Will / Terrico
——————————————-
Now our record was not good.. not good at all. What does a record like that tell you?
It’s simple you have a whole lot of nothing. I don’t care if Rip and Tay got a championship before.. you have to prove yourself and make yourself better or you’re out. This keeps everyone on there toes, and you have to challenge your team and teammates. It’s good for practice also. Man the best man win the starting position.
Oh and danny there is a reason Joe Dumars has the job that he has. You are an editor with a opinion. Remember that. we have our opinions too, dont hate.
Center : Ben Wallace / Jason Maxiell / Greg Monroe / Wilcox
PF: Jonas/ Charlie V/ Greg Monore
SF: Tay / Jonas / Daye / Tracy
SG: Rip / Ben / Tracy
PG: Stuck / Will / Terrico
——————————————-
Hey Joe. How bout’ some Maxiell on center. That’ll happen.
Jonas starts, CV off the bench.
And Terrico is not a PG.
But Stuckey’s gonna give him some pointers…
🙂
So T-mac is no4 option on SF and no3 on SG.
Is there any logic in this?
danny, in response to YOUR response to the very first post here, if you have a young team that can make the playoffs and get swept out of the first round, you don’t tank the season. but landing a bottom 4 playoff seed isn’t a bad thing, no matter how you slice it. you shouldn’t underestimate the value of a playoff series (or two) to a young, developing team.
don’t get me wrong, last season i was all about tanking. but if i thought we had half a chance at sniffing the postseason, i would have wanted the team to go out and win games. when it became plainly obvious that the team was headed for the lottery, i wanted as many balls as possible (TWSS).
tanking the season every time you don’t think you’ll get home court in the first round of the playoffs is NO way to run a team. if we can manage to trade rip, i think we have a serious chance at the playoffs. i’d certainly let these guys (and by “these guys” i’m talking about our current roster minus rip) play a few games together before i threw in the towel. we don’t know what monroe, daye, summers, villanueva or t-mac are capable of. it would be insane to quit with so many question marks.
T-Mac will be expectin’ some minutes… That’s why he left Houston. It’s AI situation all over again…
Rip wants minutes, Tay wants minutes, BG wants minutes, Stuck wants some time on SG, Daye needs minutes cause he’s our future prospect, Jerebko desreves minutes, Summers works hard, and there’s White… If we’re not gonna do a trade soon, tell me please how this is gonna work? I can see a lot of ruined team chemistry…
And we all know which additions this team needs and needs bad…
This website is downright awful. Ever since we were no longer a top 3 team in the east the comments from readers got nasty. Now the blogs themselves show no support or benefit of a doubt for anyone we sign. Billups, Big Ben, Rip, McDyess, many others came here and reinvented their game here in Detroit….when few were willing to give them a chance.
Hell, I was curious to see if even Kwame would have the same luck, but unfortunately, he did not. Despite all this, I still shook his hand when I met him last year and he was my dude because he wore red white and Piston blue.
T-Mac isn’t the same as he was in ’04, but he’s wearing Pistons colors and he deserves a benefit of a doubt, not straight hate.
But my main point(s) are these.
1) These players are human beings and don’t deserve your disrespect. I know they choose to play competitively and to entertain, but consider this; they work hard…and TMac never decided to get injured, it happened.
2) Detroit has long been a place where players have revitalized their careers and overcome seemingly ridiculous odds… give it a chance.
3) It is absolutely disgusting, disgusting…how ‘fans’ like some of you talk down about your ‘favorite’ team. The NBA is a form of entertainment and a great escape from daily life if only for a few hours…but its not life in itself…not even for the players.
4) Off-Season isn’t over yet.
Adam,
I didn’t even write this though I believe it’s a quality piece. Danny is not bashing T-Mac by any means, he just doesn’t believe this is a quality move.
Everyone has their right to their own opinion, commentors induced. I can’t control how people think or feel about the team or this website.
I do know something, I think it’s funny for anyone to come to Need4Sheed and doubt my loyalty to this team. When someone has put 6 years into something just for the love of a team…that speaks volumes.
Since I lost a reader you probably wont read this…good luck to you.
And to add to Natalie’s point –
comments that bash other commenters are stupid, I think we all can agree. I can tell you though that “Gludious”, “Chester”, “Black Rambo”, “Blazer”, “Ted”, “Ralph Nadar”, and “Buffalo Bill” are all the same person.
“Bobby” and “CuTThroaT” are the same person. Aside from them, the comments haven’t been all that bad.
Natalie, you’ve lost a reader.
I have no disrespect for any Pistons player or a fan.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
The Pistons dominating east era is over. That’s ok.
But, I wanna see a young and dinamic team fun to watch. Last year we got Jonas, this year we could get Daye… Next Monroe… BG and CV could pick their game up. I just wanna see us get forward into the new future. Step by step.
And what the hell kind of a step is this?
No disrespect to T-Mac but this team does not need him.
We need a good big man and a point guard. Period, over & out.
Respect to Danny, and you guys chill.
This trade only makes sense if Rip is going to be traded.
@ Adam B
C’mon man, you’re not gonna get offended by a comment like that are you?
Not worth it…
I still say do this trade http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2fo72au
give Sacramento either Rip or Tay, throw in some second rounders to get it done, probably for the Clippers, it creates playing time for our wing players and yes it might not make us better this year, but we get 2 young true centers (exactly what we are lacking), to take over after ben retires…
tell me what you think guys, i tried to find a trade that would make sense for all of the teams involved, cuz we’re not getting Kaman or whichever big a lot of you are dreaming about. and please stop fighting over t-mac it ain’t worth it, either he’s gonna help us win some games or not, hope he doesn’t cause trouble, but if he does we just waive him. we have a pretty young team so i think the most important thing is too just win some games and establish a culture and identity
peace out
Zkranc,
I don’t think that Sacramento makes that trade. Thompson is a young, talented, athletic big. I don’t think they give him up for just Tayshaun Prince.
yeah maybe your right, who knows 🙂 if i was Joe i would be willing to add a pick and Wilcox (expiring deal) to Tay or Rip there, I was just figuring that they already have Dalembert, Cousins, Landry and Whiteside, so maybe Thompson could be had at a reasonable price
I like T-Mac, but I think he’s a bit scared of injuring himself again. This could change. This will change. I think it’s interesting that T-Mac went from the being the highest paid player to making a minimum. I know he was healthier when signing his fat contract, but WOW, what a change in salaries from one year to the next. I wonder if Arenas will be the next one from the NBA Live cover curse to drop to the minimum.
On another note: there might be other bidders besides the Ilitches. Any ideas who?
3 things I’m hoping for:
the eventual owners are USA citizens
they’re not planning on moving the team to Vegas
and Karen just doesn’t sell to the highest bidder. I mean that she sells to the bidder that will best honor Mr. D and the Pistons’ legacy
T-Mac could become the starting point guard, and then we could get rid of stuckey
Stuckey for a Raptors draft pick
T-Mac
Richard Hamilton
Tayshaun Prince
Ben Wallace
Greg Monroe
Really?? You don’t understand the move? This is a business, they’re not putting out a NBA team for fun. It’s about money, which is about ticket/merchandise sales, which is about big names. And Tracy McGrady is a big name. Let’s face it, most of the Pistons “fans” that go to the game are not very knowledgeable about the league, or players outside of the Pistons. All they know is names, and only the big names at that. So I can guarantee that PS&E sells more tickets purely because of this move. Not to mention it’s a win-win. We signed him for the veteran’s minimum, a very low salary by NBA standards, he’s a former all-star, and the main reason in his decline of the last few years is injury problems. The Pistons are the best in the league for taking old/injury prone players and making them healthy and/or productive again. (i.e. Sheed, Chauncey, Ben, McDyess etc.) Also factor in that this gives us a better ability to trade Rip, Tay, or both for the center we need, clearing the logjam at guard/sf and rounding out the team at the same time.
@Jayg108 Sadly, Karen Davidson doesn’t give a crap about Mr. D’s legacy. She put his life’s work up for sale less then a year after he died, and I would be surprised if she didn’t take the highest bidder because of all the inheritance tax she will have to pay, not to mention the obvious greed (she is already filthy rich, but she wants to sell the team to stay filthy rich, and move out of Michigan as fast as possible). Personally I think she is just a bad person (several other words come to mind, but I’ll be PC) and I wish PS&E would have stayed in the Davidson family, but here’s hoping that Mr. I is the highest bidder, and hopefully keeps them in the Palace, which I doubt.
You’re right, Nat. This move makes zero sense UNLESS Tayshaun and Rip are both traded, moves which I assume are already in the works, or are being shopped around as we speak. If neither of them are moved by the first game of the season, then we have to start wondering if Joe might’ve bumped his head somewhere.
The Pistons are capable of a good 15-20 game stretch this season, however, Tracy isn’t a proven winner.
Teams like Miami, Boston, Orlando, Chicago, Atlanta all match up poorly with the ‘Stons.
The only possible way I can see Detroit making the playoffs is we set an NBA record for MADE 12-18 foot jump shots because that is really all we have. I don’t see this team getting many stops especially inside so we have to average 100+ a game. Which we haven’t seen in Detroit since … the Bad Boys?
And to have referred the Bad Boys in a Tracy McGrady blog in support of this move by the Pistons? I have probably just committed a sin. Anyhow, we will see where they stand at the 21 game mark, then the 42, so on and so forth. A .500 record would be fine with me! This Pistons team would have looked a whole lot better in lets say 05-06, interesting thought.
If anything, these guys will look great in Teal on a throw back night. Good luck ’10-’11 Detroit Pistons.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/detroitnws/detroitnws_ts3379
I posted this above, and I’ll post it below
“And to add to Natalie’s point –
comments that bash other commenters are stupid, I think we all can agree. I can tell you though that “Gludious”, “Chester”, “Black Rambo”, “Blazer”, “Ted”, “Ralph Nadar”, and “Buffalo Bill” are all the same person.
“Bobby” and “CuTThroaT” are the same person. Aside from them, the comments haven’t been all that bad.”
and I’ll add something else too… out of all the Pistons’ fans you know, besides maybe Natalie, you won’t find a bigger blind homer than me. what you will find, however, is a guy who doesn’t see a direction with this current roster meaning as it’s currently constructed. if this move is it, and no trades are made, this move does not improve the quality of play on the floor. we have to assume that Daye will improve, therefore he will have earned more playing time.
Why do we have to assume that? Because we’re all assuming McGrady will come in and contribute right? It’s only natural growth and progression for Daye, Jerebko and hell even Summers to grow and improve man.
If Natalie loses readers because she or I keep it real with our opinions, I can’t speak for her but I know that it’s no big loss. I was posting my thoughts on this move, and by no means was I bashing the Pistons or the current players on the roster. I was simply questioning the move because I think it proves that there is no clear direction which the team is going with regard to the “rebuilding” that needs to be happening.
AMEN
Great move for the Pistons as long as Rip or Prince get dealt before the season because McGrady is a star around the league when healthy and can help the Pistons a lot. At age 31 still has a lot left in the tank with something to prove.GOOD LUCK PISTONS N T-MAC
i dont understand how some of your rotations look guys. you have charlie v starting or ahead of monroe?
here’s how I see it, we have 2 high quality players:
Ben Wallace (if healthy), Stuckey
Then we have some decent NBA ballers
rip, prince, jerebko, bynum
Nobody else has really produced for us for one reason or another, Maxiell, Wilcox never developed properly, Daye can’t move his feet and defend, Charlie V has super glue on his hands can’t pass the ball, white is unproven, ben gordon can’t defend and without a shot he’s nothing (he’ll be better this year but still)
As I see it we have no choice but to go with
center: wallace
pf: Monroe
sf: jerebko, prince
sg : rip, ben gordon
pg: stuckey, bynum
I don’t care where you put the rest of the guys, we don’t have a ton of talent.
Look at the bulls, they have all kinds of talent, we could take one of their 7th or 8th guys and start him right away, same with orlando, hawsk or the bucks.
I look at the celtics with their bench players glen davis, nate robinson, rasheed wallace (who I guess got waved this year), I wish we could start some of their bench players.
The good news is that you don’t necessarily need a deep bench to win when the pistons won in 2004 it was basically the same 5 guys on the court nonstop.
the bad news is that we are still missing short at least one player possibly two, in our starting roster, before we can compete in the NBA
I think Joe D wants to win this season, he’s like you or me! He’s sick of losing.
Unfortunately he’s been hypnotized by his own farts and thinks he can win with the current roster. He thinks we can beat chicago, boston and miami with Charlie V, plodding around that throwing up 3’s like a broken toaster, that we can win by having Ben Gordon play a matador on one end of the floor and the most inconsistent 3 pointer in the nba on the other end.
I love monroe, have you guys seen him play? He should start no question, jerebko should start, ben wallace has to start, stucky is one of our two best players, rip is still at the height of his game, prince needs limited minutes just so he can stay healthy.
We are wasting so much money on bg and charlie v. I suppose they can both surprise us, but no matter what BG is never gonna be better than rip, and charlie v is so weak, he always is playing out of position, he’s never going to be our power forward, he doesn’t even enjoy having his back to the basket.
You know what this team really needs? It needs a ‘Sheed. Serious. Not rasheed wallace, he got lazy after he won the ring. But someone like him, someone with power, that can defend, loves having his back to the basket, and someone that can defend one on one any single person in the league, be it lebron james barreling like a freight train or howard taking his patented 5 extras steps on a baby jump hook. Sheed always someone got howard to get going in the wrong direction and made him shoot with his wrong hand, he always knew where lebron was on the court and didnt leave him open lanes.
I would be really happy with this team if we got rid of 4 or 5 players, so the chemistry was better, and if we got a servicable big man to help ben wallace. right now, Joe D seems to be happy with his team, but he’s completely hypnotized himself and I refuse to cheer on his delusion. I like Joe and I think he’ll come around, I just want it to happen sooner or later, that’s why I’m being so critical.
Actually maybe this can work. Starting lineup of Stuckey, Hamilton, Prince, Villanueva, Monroe. This means a lot of our defense resides in the wings and we have offensively inclined big men starting.
2nd unit of: Bynum, Gordon, McGrady, Jerebko, Wallace. Now, a lot of our defense resides down low, while the three smaller players hold responsibility for most of our offense.
Other players: Daye, Maxiell.
Players that usually won’t dress: Summers, Wilcox, White.
Now, I’m fine with all the above, other than I regret how Daye’s and Summer’s roles will shrink and how Jerebko and Villa will pretty much only get time at the 4 (never the 3) and Wallace and Monroe will only see time at the 5 (not the 4). Also, McGrady will pretty much only fit at the 3 (unless Gordon plays some 1) and Stuckey will only find time at the 1 (when he might be better off at the 2).
I don’t see how this is a bad move, I really don’t.
Dumars didn’t sign him with the intention of adding to an already clogged shooting-guard/small-forward positions.
He obviously has something else lined up. If Hamilton is traded, Mcgrady gives us length at the guard position. If Prince is traded, Mcgrady gives us a veteran small-forward. One or both will be traded by the end of the offseason. Daye and Jerebko will find time. The front-office might feel Daye isn’t fully ready yet. And if he proves to them that he is, they will make a spot open for him. I don’t love the move, but I do like it. Mostly because I feel Rip won’t be in a Piston jersey this coming season. Since Gordon and Bynum are under-sized, Mcgrady will give us that much needed length in the back-court.
i usually always agree with edit and i do again this time. i would have monroe at the 4 and ben at the five to start. after about 15 mins id pull ben out and move greg to the 5 and put in maxiel. im not a huge fan of cv doesnt play d and doesnt rebound the two most important things in my eyes. i really do believe prine will get traded soon hopefully for a big that can defend and score in the paint. i am a fan of kaman and he is a native of michagin. lets see what happens like i said im sure joe has pieces ready to move.
You can say things like, “what is the point of signing him?”. Well, what is the point of signing anyone?
You play to win the games.
It’s not as if we could have gone out and signed some great center for $1 million. This signing will make us a better team, therefore it was a good move. End of story.
And yes, we probably will trade Rip and/or Prince – hopefully for a post player or some draft picks. So that should open up more minutes at SG/SF.
Im not saying i like this move, but i think it will help the team. Nobody knows what the outcome will be of this move or team. People can’t just assume things right from the start. The pistons were god-awful last year and i think most (if not all) of the the players realized it. I honestly thing Charlie and Ben will improve signinfigantly this year and the signing of T-MAc will only help our young forwards, espcailly Daye and Jonas. I don’t know about you guys, but I am really excited about the Pistons this year. WHo knows if they will make the playoffs, but all im saying is that if the players have enough heart, and the city and fans stand by the team, then the sky’s the limit for the PISTONS! DETROIT BASKETBALL 4 LIFE!
“This is chess not checkers!” ~ Denzel Washington – Training Day.
Tracy McGrady pickup is part of a larger picture and shouldn’t be taken at face value.
It’s been a while since I’ve commented here, but reading this article by Danny makes me want to share some thoughts:
Signing T-Mac for the veterans’ minimum is NOT a bad deal. Extremely low risk, potentially huge reward. I must say I don’t understand all the hate on Joe D and T-Mac. Sure Joe’s had some trouble in recent years, but the man’s not afraid to take risks, and I personally respect him for that. The AI deal was awful, but when he had the chance to get two solid offensive free agents last year, he jumped on it, as he knew no high profile FAs are going to take less money to come to Detroit (Miami’s much nicer in the winter than the Lower Peninsula). The Darko pick was also questionable, but Dumars isn’t afraid to take chances, and, if he had picked up Melo (keep in mind D-Wade and Bosh were not considered viable options with the 2 pick and Joe would have received a ton of flack from the national sports media), Tayshaun would likely not have developed, a trade for ‘Sheed would have been much less likely, and I highly doubt we would have won the title. Things work themselves out. He knew to pass on overpaying Big Ben, only to sign him last year for the same vet minimum, and he had a resurgence. Who’s to say this won’t with Tracy?
I know this isn’t a very valid argument, but there’s potential he’ll bounce back, assuming he takes a lesser role of the bench (he played well with the Knicks last season, but the huge minutes and equally large demand placed on T-Mac’s weary shoulders wore him down), he could potentially be a hugely valuable commodity. Perhaps even a hot commodity. It seems as though most commentators here are considering only what he’ll do on the floor. This is important, seeing as he’s a basketball player, but there’s much more to the move (potentially). As Evan stated above, he’s a big name, and, if he plays anywhere close to his old capabilities (2 time scoring leader/incredible athlete/creative dunker/creative shot-maker), he can sell tickets, and that’s something the Pistons really need right now. Also, assuming he does play well, as this best case scenario suggests he will, he becomes a great trade chip. I know it’s only $1.3 some million dollars, but it’s an expiring contract, and his star power/ability to win a game or two for a team each season if he’s healthy (see: Tracy McGrady- 13 points in 35 seconds on youtube). Tack him onto a deal that includes either Rip or Tay, and that could potentially net you a bigger and better big man in a trade, or maybe a draft pick or two. Teams want big name, big time scorers who could change the face of a franchise for the better, and some GMs will give up a lot to get one of these guys, especially if it’s on the cheap (see: Joe Dumars trading Chuancey Billups and Antonio McDyess for Allen Iverson). He doesn’t need to be a game changer though. Even if he’s completely average, or a little below, I’d rather have his defense and clutch shooting on the floor at the end of a close game (assuming Tay or Rip are injured or somehow traded without him), than the inexperienced second years. Jerebko will find his time at the 4, as he earned it, and DaJuan Summers (who I really, really like) and Austin Daye will get theirs if they’ve earned it, but I would much rather be able to rely on a crafty veteran than them. Once Rip and/or Tay and/or McGrady are traded they’ll have their chances to step up and show us all what they can really do. Because, and this is important to remember, as very few people seem to have been considering it when they wrote their comments, efforts are (allegedly/reportedly) being made to move some of our wings, so Daye and Summers will get their just rewards if they’ve earned them, all in good time.
Worst case scenario is that T-Mac’s awful or battling injury all season. WHO CARES?! It’s $1.3 million for one year! If he’s bad management can just cut him, that tiny contract won’t cripple us financially by any means if we let him go. And if injured he can sit on the end of the bench and crack some jokes with the youngins that he can mentor (hopefully teaching Daye and Summers how to average 30+ pts per game in a season), and give Arnie something to do to keep his days more interesting.
It’s not a win-win signing, but the loss isn’t a bad one, so I’d say the potentially positives vastly outweigh the negatives. I’m all for this signing, and am looking forward to seeing Tracy McGrady represent the Pistons’ red, white, and blue as a talented player, and represent the state of Michigan as a worldly humanitarian. Welcome, T-Mac, it’ll be a fun year!
Think of the trades we can make now…T-mac, plus Rip/Tayshaun for a big?
I’m hoping for a big too.
I was very shocked as well. He would make a great back up for Tay, but knowing Joe D, most likely Tracy will be playing power forward. I’m still waiting for a point guard.
“T-Mac, there’s a cat in the tree.”
“Save me, T-Mac, save me.”
i think that the starting line-up should be
stucky-pg
rip-SG
t-mac-SF
charlie-PF
big ben-C
and then have a amazing bench with tay and ben and jonas leading the way. oh and will. another plus is the starting line-up is pretty tall other than ben but monroe can replace ben if needed. i would like to hear everyones opinion on this idea . another thing if t-mac does not work out tay can always replace him and then t-mac can go to the bench.
lol @ 13 points in 35 seconds, t-mac was a 25% 3 shooter last year, hitting four 3’s in a row was so lucky.
I’m not really sure what t-mac does any more. He was the scoring champion in 2003 and 2004. Allen Iverson was the scoring champ in 2002 and 2005. Trend? The only washed up scoring champ still playing, that Joe hasn’t hired yet is Shaq. the all time scoring champ of course is Michael Jordan. I hesitate to say that Michael Jordan is washed up, even at 47, I bet he would be a pretty good shooting guard. Maybe that’s Joe’s next move, hire in Michael Jordan as our 2342343th shooting guard and “fill seats.” the same way that AI filled seats and t mac is gonna fill seats.
would michael Jordan play at the vet minimum? lol
Me and a friend were thinking of plausible acquirable big men for the pistons and the name came out of that discussion was Emeka Okafor.. Any other ideas?
My question is how is it impossible to find some positives in the deal?
It’s cheap
If he gets injured and doesnt play then no spilled milk there cause we’re not everpaying
And if he performs well like say Big Ben last year than Joe D looks smart for signing him and helping us win a few games or so.
I dunno this post in general to ME isn’t very Need4Sheed
But oh well
overpaying*
There are rumors that Prince can be traded to OKC. Any ideas?
Danny, you’re annoying. (sorry Nat, because you brought this guy on board) Sometimes, people just want to get their comments or opinions off their chest and be done with it. They don’t want or need somebody sticking in their half-cent’s worth ALL the time. When was the last time you let 10 comments go by without feeling the need to chime in? (rhetorical question, you REALLY don’t need to answer!)
McGrady signing = WHY?!?!
Well I’ll tell ya why Robert. Joe Dumars is in the process of trading Richard Hamilton before the season starts. The deal is imminent, but he’s trying to move Rip without adding Tay to the deal so that may be stalling talks right now, but at any rate Rip is out as a piston.
and you know this how terry?
I don’t agree with you about the signing but I respectfully disagree. The internet is like the safety of your car as you flip off a total stranger for virtually nothing – you’ll never see that cat again (unless he follows your ass home for a beat down). I challenge everyone to act as though they are having a face to face. I bet the discourse changes drastically. Reasonable minds can disagree.
Keep posting Danny boy. Your are offending the offenders. You’re a righteous brother my man! Wrong – in this case methinks – but you have a legitimate view and Joe D should be getting some criticism for what has happened to this team. He wanted to mold it into a “Spurs” like team with vets and youth developing simultaneously. Looks more like the Clippers or the Knicks – fo shizzle.
Has anyone considered sheed coming back? He just “retired” from the NBA, got waived or something with the addition of the Diesel to the boston big party.
I really think that with the addition of sheed and trading rip + prince for anything reasonable as a Center, we´re good for playoffs.
this danny dude is annoying
im happy tmac is here, hoping he can be good…if not, who cares really?
It wouldnt break the orginazation’s back, or anything…plus danny would have probably posted something even more negative and annoying if JoeD had gone through the summer without a signing..(who else was there to sign anyway?)
Here’s to hoping this means a trade for a good big!
i heard that joe d promised both rip & prince they would be allowed to stay in detroit for as long as they wanted, until they retired.
That is one reason i am so suspicious of trade talks. Talks of trades are day dreams for people that can’t accept THIS . . . this the new pistons team. What you see is what you got.
also…
i agree with EDT on his comment that we need a sheed… i agree, a sheed that likes to bang, not like 2005-20009 sheed.
maybe a trade with portland for LeMarcus Aldridge would be nice, for Tay
very wishful thinking
Espn tells me my trade idea is very implausible
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
i dont know much about salary dealings, and other nba works
just a fan
EDT, do you really think joe dumars cares more about his friendships with rip and tay more than a chance to improve the team? I mean hypothetically, say neither wanted to be traded, but a good trade oppertunity fell into JoD’s lap, do you think he’d really shut it down because of “promising” them?
heck if I know! All I know is that dont believe any trade rumors. Everyone dreams about their best trades as if what they wish will come true.
Most likely there will be no trade. Maybe next year who knows?
if we make the division finals with this team why would he want to trade?
Joe really believes that this team can beat Miami. That last year the only reason we lost was injuries. At least that’s what I have gleaned from the interviews.
Go figure.
if joe dumars made any promises about keeping players a certain length of time, he needs to be fired, because he’s not doing his job. there’s a limit to the loyalty a GM should ethically have with his players, and he displayed an INCREDIBLE (and regrettable) amount of loyalty by giving rip that ludicrous extension. nobody in the world thought rip’s play would ever justify that contract. it was an act of loyalty, and a “thank you” for his contribution to our third championship. joe owes him nothing. he could trade rip absolutely anywhere with a clear conscience.
i read that david aldridge reported that joe said (that sure was clunky) he would not trade tayshaun unless he requested it, but i think that’s because joe’s preference is to trade tay in february; he’d just try to make a deal in the offseason if tayshaun wanted to go. this is the kind of loyalty that a GM should have. not the kind that promises someone he won’t ever be traded, even to the detriment of the team.
also, count me among the legitimate people (i’m not a troll, i try to make good arguments, i don’t have any aliases) who was turned off by the article. i read it and i’m thinking, “how is natalie saying this?” and of course she wasn’t, but it felt very out of place. the thing that absolutely kills this article before is the built-in assumption that the roster is set. i think, if anything, it’s a safe assumption that a trade is imminent. i was nervous about the clogged and mismatched perimeter BEFORE this acquisition (we had an abysmal backcourt quartet, and it would have been a losing proposition to try futilely to establish reasonable rotations), but back then i had a feeling we might actually give it a try. but with this signing, i’m convinced that someone’s getting traded (probably and hopefully rip, as he seems to be the odd man out). no rational person could possibly think all of these perimeter players can coexist.
any math whiz will tell you there’s 24 minutes apiece for stuck, BG, rip, tay, bynum and t-mac if daye, summers and white never ever play ever. i just can’t believe joe thinks this is a good idea. so a trade must be coming. this is about as safe an assumption as you could possibly make in professional sports transactions. this isn’t 2005-2008 when a legitimate backup for tayshaun was our most glaring need and would have greatly increased our chances of winning a championship. and surely some combination of daye, summers, rip, jerebko and stuckey could more than handle all the SF minutes behind tayshaun (heck, to accommodate rip and stuckey with their customary minutes they would NEED to log minutes at SF). he wasn’t signed to be prince’s backup. that makes no sense.
how many players are there in the usual nba rotation? eight or nine? there’s six guys right there for three positions. no daye, summers or white (you might as well put them in street clothes, and you just spent a pick on white that could have been used on a PF/C prospect). you’ve got no idea what you can expect from monroe or villanueva, and big ben looked good last year, but there’s no telling how quickly he declines. your only real known quantities are jerebko and max (the former being a tweener/SF and the latter being three inches shorter!). so you can’t count any of them out of the rotation for a while. so you’re mixing and matching with an 11 man rotation at minimum.
going forward as-is would be a sure fire way to lose now and lose later. but i you trade rip, it suddenly makes a lot of sense. gordon plays next to stuckey in the starting lineup (that’s what he was brought here for, right?), and you’ve got a big guard on the bench to pair with bynum. and i imagine tayshaun will be traded at the deadline when (if healthy) his value peaks, so t-mac will be an especially good addition to have.
joe would have to be developmentally disabled to attempt going forward with the current roster. and as much as i criticize the man, i don’t think he’s the dumbest human being in recorded history.
So, what have we got?
Stuckey / Bynum / White (a piont guard is needed, but maybe Stuck had a great summer :))
Hamilton / Gordon / McGrady (crowded)
Prince / Daye / Summers
Jerebko / Villanueva / Wilcox
Wallace / Maxiell / Monroe (a center is needed)
Rip (much respect) + Maxiell and/or Wilcox for a good center.
But we have better chances of trading Prince + Maxiell cause of their contracts… 🙁
T-Mac is still good people, before his injury he lead the Rockets to 21 straight wins. The injury he had takes time to heal, just ask McDyess!
Lets chill people, this is a polarizing discussion, but we are all Piston fans here (I think) respect the right of other people to have an opinion and your right to agree, disagree, or come up with your own opinion.
Again, I want some time to digest this story. Maybe also a chance to see some further roster moves.
i think everyone is a piston fan besides steven. ever since the decision i havent seen him around anymore to talk about the cavs. we will see if anything happens in my mind i think he has something lined up. im sure rip and tay would like to play for contenders so lets wait and see what happens. welcome to the d tmac
Great Choice!!!!!!
If nothing else the young guys will learn from a great guy that can score in different ways. It will be one year but what the young guys can learn from him will be much more valuable!!!!
Successful seasons and playoff series wins fill seats.
Players fill seats when they are a part of this.
They don’t fill them on their own.
Not in this organization, anyway.
I think people resent their subconscious notion that Joe made this move to divert our attention from the obvious logjams at several positions. They then argue that he just made the logjams worse! It would be a decent argument if we were really giving up anything to get T-Mac. Given that we make no more moves, the best healthy players will play. If Jerebko cannot outperform an older, broken down McGrady, he is not the wave of the future. If McGrady gets 20 minutes a night, it is because he is healthy and playing especially well. We have way more talent than the Knicks; we do not need to resort to throwing able-bodies on the court. Players will earn their keep. It’s border-line ridiculous that we are dissecting this signing! How are we going to argue about depth after having all the injuries we had last year? Just TERR-BULL!!!
FIRE JOE BRING BACK JOHN HAMMOND! The End!!!!!
FIRE JOE D. BRING BACK JOHN HAMMOND! The End!!!!!
Frankly, this is the most hysterical I’ve ever seen this website be. And it’s pretty awful. Losing readers and revealing nutty aliases and doubting our fan status?Chillax, please! If we start the season with this line up, then go crazy! None of us is privy to what is actually occurring behind the scenes.
And Boney, you are new, so you should relax too. Be like Natalie. Throw the topic out there and let us all squabble amongst ourselves. It’s what we do best! And please don’t get so defensive about your opinion. This is basketball, not brain surgery. In the big scheme of things, it is sports entertainment and that’s all.
You have good and smart opinions and so do most of us. Remember though, they are only opinions and are not going to affect reality in the slightest.
lets start the season with this lineup give everyone equal minutes (that they deserve) by the middle of the season we will know 2 things who deserves more minutes and who we trade for the positions that we are not producing in. take that boney. lol
http://www.t-mac.com/tmac/blogDetail/2528
we need to be a little more thankful for who we got and stop putting the man down he is a piston now embrace him. be like the people comenting on his site. im am a die hard piston fan i would root for any one on our team (except maybe scalabrine that ugly bastard).
What magazine is T-Mac reading, he really brings an element of toughness to the team. I can’t wait until he offers to take Big Ben out for a mani pedi, and a glass of merlot. Welcome back toughness!
Dude. Why would you do that? Seriously. Don’t encourage that kid.
trevor, i just thanked the lord above that you’re not the pistons’ GM. god is good! even if t-mac can outperform rookies and sophomores, doesn’t mean he should get their minutes. they need time to develop. jj’s going to be a PF anyways, but what about daye? a healthy t-mac can probably outplay daye, but we’ve made a commitment to the kid. it’s anybody’s guess why we drafted a project SF, but here we are. daye should get however many minutes it takes to develop him. we’re not winning anything this year anyways. if immediate production is so important (even on a cellar dweller like us), i’m sure we could make some upgrades by trading monroe, jerebko, daye, what have you…
and junior, are you joking? because it sounds like you’re joking. you think throwing everybody out there, struggling to get six veterans (a) enough minutes, (b) enough shots, (c) effective rotations. it’s a recipe for NONE of them to succeed. and the second phase of your plan is to trade the guys who aren’t producing. not only will that group include “everyone,” but you can’t possibly showcase all (or likely ANY) of these players and establish value for them. you’re better off having rip NOT prove he’s healthy and just have the other team’s training staff judge for themselves than to put him on the floor with all these freelancing swingmen and be a major drag on the team.
“Laser”, I was actually offered the job, but I heard your prayers and decided to pursue other endeavors. We agree to disagree. I think the best players should play and signing a former scoring champion and first-team all-nba selection for a one-year veteran’s minimum can only push the level of competitiveness on this team. Plus, I’m sure you noticed from last year, injuries were a factor to the point where depth is not just a luxury. As far as player development goes, I guess that depends on what you are expecting from Daye. I personally do not see a future starter there and if I’m wrong, his talent will dictate his fortune, not charity minutes because we are such “cellar dwellers” as you put it. I see Jerebko as a player that will play both the 3 and the 4, so I would hope he would still manage to get enough PT to develop. For the record, I don’t like the logjam either, and Joe will have to fix the mess he created, but I can’t knock him for a low-risk move with the ever-so-slightest chance of high reward.
Umm I don’t know, Natalie… I just don’t know. How could this happen… why?
no i wasnt joking i think this will be a good run n gun team. it will be a lot like college. we could also on defense pressure the ball handler all the way up the floor or even throw some press in there. if you have enough quality players no one will be too tired to play this way. i think we have plenty of quality players to make this work. basketball is about the pressure you can put on the opposing team and make them play your way. if this is the team we have i say we press them and force them to play it our way.
Your right this move makes no sense because Stuckey doesn’t know how to pass the ball besides turning it over!!!!! Should have traded stuckey to move up in the draft or hold on wait a sec that’s right no one would want him anyway so I guess we’re just screwed at point guard. Wilox and CV, you serious, Detroit isn’t a contender anyway, I woulda of rather seen T-Mac go be a back up on the Miami Heat that would have been awesome to see then him coming here were I’m sure he knows he has no chance of winning anything with this team and coach they have. Maybe Detroit’s front office should do dumars like the Knicks did Thomas and send him down to coach the team.