Need4Sheed Guest Writer: @_dannyb_
When I was asked to do another guest post at Need4Sheed, I jumped at the opportunity. When I was asked to pick a game, I naturally chose the Knicks game because they can’t possibly beat the Pistons right? No? So for guest post #2 of my N4S career, I am stuck writing a recap of the worst loss of the season. Earlier, if you’ll remember, I wrote about the Pistons disastrous loss to the Indiana Pacers on the 22nd of January. So, whether you want to remember or not, here we go:
Final Score Pistons 104 Knicks 128
- Jonas Jerebko is above and beyond the player of the night: 15 points (4-9 fg, 2-2 3pt, 5-7 FT) with 13 rebounds (4 offensive) in 34 minutes.
- Only Austin Daye had a positive plus/minus (+6) for the Pistons, everyone else was a negative (Richard Hamilton was a team worst, -22).
- With the Pistons down 20+ with a little over 2 minutes to go DaJuan Summers, Chucky Atkins and Kwame Brown got some burn. I guess being down by as much as 27 at one point doesn’t mean that perhaps another group could provide a spark huh Coach Q?
- Actually since you’ve been reading this, the score is now 134-104 as Al Harrington has hit 2 more 3 pointers.
- At least the Maxiell did what he could in place of Ben Wallace.
- I remember when I played basketball, they taught me to put my hands up on opponent’s shot attempts. The Knicks shot 55% from the field, 52% from 3. The Knicks made 6 more shots than the Pistons on 4 less shots. Where’s the D?
- Newly acquired Bill Walker scored a career high 22 points on 9-13 shooting. So tell me Rip, Tayshaun, Daye, and whoever else guarded 2nd year SG/SF Bill Walker who couldn’t see any time in Boston… how does Bill Walker absolutely embarrass you like that? This dunk didn’t help.
[flashvideo file=http://nba.cdn.turner.com/nba/big/games/knicks/2010/03/03/0020900903_det_nyk_play2.nba_nba_576x324.flv /]
Video Courtesy of The NBA
- Tracy McGrady with a near triple-double (21 points, 7 rebounds, 8 assists). The man is playing on one leg.
- The New York Knicks did not start a point guard.
- The only players on the Knicks that shot under 50% on the night were Sergio Rodriguez and Toney Douglas.
- 4 Knicks scored 20 or more. 0 Pistons scored 20 or more.
- Poor ball movement – 19 assists on 41 field goals made for Detroit.
- Remember New York didn’t start a point guard? They had 33 assists on 47 field goals made.
- Ben Wallace out after injuring his knee against the Celtics. Jason Maxiell started in his place and played 30 minutes, scoring 10 points and securing 8 rebounds.
- Awful game. Just awful.
- Why is Tayshaun Prince playing 33 minutes in a 20+ point blowout loss and Austin Daye only playing 10 minutes?
- Why is this team as bad as they are? They have 7 road wins. 7. They’ve played 30 road games.
- Al Harrington usually does not play well against us (12.2 ppg career) but he exploded for 26 points on 10-17 shooting with 8 rebounds.
- Thanks again to Natalie for allowing me to write this re-cap. Nothing positive came from watching this game, writing this re-cap or thinking this team has a chance against cellar dweller teams anymore. The Detroit Pistons are a bad team right now.
- The High-Low lights
[flashvideo file=http://nba.cdn.turner.com/nba/big/games/knicks/2010/03/03/0020900903_det_nyk_recap.nba_nba_576x324.flv /]
Video Courtesy of The NBA and The Detroit Pistons
Nice recap of a craptacular game, Bonez. You added pics this time–yay!! How come you never write about lacrosse anymore? 🙁
Well, we are being toast by mediocre or bad teams.
I never saw that coming.
Half the players aren’t good enough to be playin’ for the Pistons. EVER.
Rip and Tay are role pieces supposed to add to an already good team. Now they’re adding shit to our shitty team.
It couldn’t get more appropriate than that.
7 YEARS IN A ROW GOING TO THE PLAYOFFS GONE TO WASTE SHAM ON UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
in the words of winnie the pooh.
Your opinion of Rip is not backed up by facts.
To say that the ONE guy on our team that shoots the ball well and is obviously trying to distribute is adding shit to this team is insulting.
Yes we have a bad team. Yes we need new players. But Rip led us to a championship he adds knowledge and points. Hell man even if he doesnt score at all he runs around so much it forces the other team to focus on him. The problem now is rip is the ONLY piston that draws a double team… So dont hate on rip. The man is the best at what he does he just has no help!
well the run was good..they desrve a standing o last game of the season
“Joe: When we had cap space maybe eight years ago, we made a decision then that we wanted to come out of that free agency with multiple players. We made the same decision this year we’re not going to go out and sign one max player. As we entered the summer, we were not one max player away from being a contender, so it made no sense to go out and target one guy. We wanted to come out of this free agency with a minimum of three guys and we’ve done that with Wilcox, with Villanueva, with Ben Gordon, and to be in a position financially to also sign a veteran big like we wanted to, to also have Ben Wallace, as well. To come out of it with three or four players, that’s what we wanted to do in the first place. We believe talent in numbers wins.
question: What do you see in Ben? He’s one-dimensional.
Joe: He’s a guy that has shown that he can make big shots when it counts. When you can acquire a guy who is a difference maker, I think you have to jump on that. He brings big shots, a guy that can stretch the defense and make 3s. With Jonas, with DaJuan Summers, especially with Austin Daye, with Charlie V, with Ben Gordon – there’s five guys we’ve added that can stretch the floor and we missed that last year. We missed having guys who could just knock shots down. We did not have enough of that. Ben leads the way on that. I think he is the primary guy that can stretch the floor, can make 3s. He’s a shot-maker and you can’t have too many of those in this league now.
Question: You’ve got Rip. Why is this going to work where Allen Iverson didn’t?
Joe: Ben was the Sixth Man of the Year as a rookie. So there’s a fundamental difference between Ben Gordon and Iverson.
Joe: The old way is it always had to be your point guard initiating, and you don’t see that as much right now. Whoever the guy you trust most to make plays, that’s who’s going to initiate the offense. Not just the point guard. Those days are over.
Question: People were peculating about Carlos Boozer. With Charlie Villanueva, was he a guy you focused on later?
Joe: If you don’t have the strong, low-post, traditional four man that can score, you better have one of those guys we call a stretch four – that can stretch the defense, versatile, that’s inside-out. If you’re not going to get a traditional four guy, then today’s game requires you to have more versatile four men. Charlie is the prototypical guy that can play inside, play outside, average 7½ rebounds, can shoot the 3, can put it on the floor.
Joe: Charlie can definitely get better . We’re going to ask him to be more than just a scorer. We love the fact he snagged 7½ rebounds a game. Obviously, we’re going to ask him to do a better job defensively. Just as you saw Lewis and Turkoglu get better, as 6-10 guys, they got better as they got older – became more mature, more settled, stronger. Those guys settled in and became real versatile and that’s what we see Charlie as.
Joe: The only thing I said to Ben about him coming back is you understand that you’re not coming back in the same role that you were before.”
* * *
This is the team that Joe Dumars wanted to build. Charlie V is our stretch-4. Ben Gordon is our scoring boost off the bench. Ben Wallace is there to provide leadership and guidance not to actually lplay as a starter. Chris Wilcox, Charlie V, BG, the plan is for us to wait for them to grow into great defenders, while their natural scoring abilities bring us to the playoffs.
I can’t wait to see what seed we’ll get in the playoffs with all the brilliant moves Joe Dumars made. It’s clear from reading last year’s interview by Joe Dumars that we are supposed to make it to the conference finals again. Oh wait. That’s not gonna happen.
btw notice in this 2009 interview that Joe D is comparing his signing of BG & CV with his 2002 signing of free agent chauncey billups in 2003 and the renew of rip hamilton’s contract in 2002 when he turned free agent.
Note: Our 2003 team went 50-32 and made it to the conference finals.
So it’s pretty clear to me that Joe Dumars expected this team to have the same talent level as our 2003 team conference finals team that only needed to add ‘sheed for an NBA championship.
another thing is we need a better coach. q is doing alright but i think sometimes his choices are suspect at best i say get avery in here and watch us make the playoffs, with better DDDDDD
Can’t lose to the knicks….ummm we lost to Golden State and they are worse than the Knicks LOL. Kicks have a better outlook right now than Detroit does.
why would Avery ruin his win% with us?)))
He demands a lot of money and a good team (contender)
What the hell in the world was that… i was seeing garbage in front of my eyes in that game.
First of all most intelligent, wise and great Joe Dumars, go work on the street you fucking bum.
Trade this Ben Gordon and “Charlie V” characters to some other stupid team for a draft pick or an overall good player, someone like Carlos Boozer would be great.
Second of all, Why the hell do we always lose our focus in the 4th quarter!? like every time we have a lead in the first half, then in the 3rd, by the 4th we lose the lead and we get fucked.
I don’t understand Coach Kuester’s game plan in the 4th quarter, just take random 3 point shots from Ben Gordon!? you’ve got to be kidding me…pathetic game. I hope they can bring some hope in the final few games. I doubt it.
JoeD now paying the price on believing that a bunch of good off. players=good off. team
Luckliy we now have the 5th pick which means we have a great chance to bring in a talented big
Also we need a true point guard instead of stuck who can’t even play pick&roll or move the ball efficiently
lol i just looked one of the mock drafts and it says the pistons will draft a 7 foot player from lithuania, remember what happened last time the pistons drafted a foreign big man? lmao, they wont make that mistake twice.
But realistically, I think at the draft, the best case scenario for drafting a big man (which the pistons need) is getting DeMarcus Cousins, or if Wesley Johnson isnt drafted yet (which he prolly will be by the 4th or 5th pick), or maybe Derrick Favors. Hell if they are in dire need of a big man who can play defense if my above options are taken, there is still Cole Aldrich. So either way if the Pistons get a top 5 or 6 draft pick they’ll come away with a quality big man.
ok edt thats a good point but do you think the 02 team would have been as good if there top 5 was injured the whole year and that was at the time ben wallace,rip,chauncey, rebracha and a toss up between cliff robinson and memo…give these guys a break before every was hurt the team was 12 and 12…..they been injury prone the entire year something we have never seen in detroit ever
3point stunna that’s what joe d has been saying. I’m not buying it. A healthy Charlie V + Ben Gordon is not as good as Rip and Chauncey were back in 2003 injury or no injury.
we got a team with no defense, even when they are healthy. we got a team where nobody except for stuckey can create his own shot. And charlie v has never been a good 3 point shooter his whole career. why is he magically supposed to knock down 3’s now?
here’s the thing about ben gordon. He’s not shooting that bad, compared to his average. He normally is 44%, this year he’s 42%, normally he’s 40% from the 3, this year he’s 31% from the 3. Normally he’s 86% from the stripe, this year he’s 84%.
When he returns to his old form he’s not gonna improve much. He’ll knock down one more shot a game. he’s always been streaky, inconsistent, unable to defend, and unable to get his own shot. Most of his problems stem from the fact that he’s not as getting clean looks at the basket, like he used to when he was playing with Joakim Noah and Derrick Rose.
Our team is playing right at the same level as they were last year, Charlie V, Ben Gordon, Maxiell . . . they aren’t worse.
The problem is that Joe D looked in his crystal ball and thought that magically Ben Gordon and Charlie V would learn how to play defense because they came into the “culture of detroit” which is nonsense since the culture of detroit left when billlups, sheed and mcdyess left.
This is a team that is lazy defensively, with the exception of Jerebko and ben wallace. The team is limited offensively because our players are one dimensional. It’s exactly the sort of team Joe D should have been able to predict, except Joe was so awed by his own awesomeness that he thought after he maxed out his free agency money the players he bought would change.
He’s like a woman marrying her husband because she knows he can change it’s retarded.
We can only hope that Charlie V and BG remain healthy, so Joe D has a real good look at what he bought.
Anyone can develop a 3 point shot. Look at He didnt have to buy it. But not everyone can defend. Look at Grant Hill, his career 3% is 30% but he was forced to work at his 3 in phoenix and this season he is shooting 46%
The reason not everyone can defend is that it depends on your body, a certain amount of athleticism, quickness and size. No matter how much Steve Nash trains, he’ll never defend well.
Did the Pistons make a mistake by signing BG and CV31? No. They signed the best two free agents available last year. They have had their difficulties fitting in, yes. Due to injuries and some expected “growth pains”.
Hopefully, the rest of this season we start to see these signings play at the level they have shown they can.
Then, come next season:
– without the injuries
– developed chemistry
– stability in coaching
– improvement from the rookies
– a lottery-pick
– a good free agent who was overlooked as teams give max contracts do slightly better players.
– possibly a trade to bring in a big man (Tay has an expiring contract, Rip’s contract gets smaller each day) I don’t like the idea of having to trade one of these players, but if we want talent in return, talent must be given up.
Next season when we are probably in the middle of the playoff race, some commentators and fans of rival teams will be saying I wish our organization had had the vision to build our franchise like Detroit did.
I honestly think that in this weak eastern conference, although next year teams like Chicago, New York, New Jersey, and Miami will probably be stronger (Boston probably weaker) the playoffs next year are definitely within reach.
I’m going to disagree with you, ebt. It’s not solely Ben Gordon’s fault this team is underachieving.
Ben Gordon was a 20ppg scorer in Chicago long before Derrick Rose came to town.
Your statement of “he can’t get his own shot” well in 03, none of the Pistons players could create off the dribble. They had to run the offense in order to be successful. Ben Gordon is not playing like he was last year, Villanueva is not playing like he was last year, what we have here ebt is a confusion among fans, coaching staff and front office of what this years goal should have been. You knew going into the season that Ben Wallace was your only center, and since he doesn’t score and neither does kwame, wilcox or maxiell that this team has an extremely backcourt loaded roster.
There was no way this team was built to win this year. Even if Gordon had a year like last year, that would mean rip would be on the bench for more minutes a night. This was a wasted year for developing guys like Austin daye or dajuan summers.. We have been forced to watch tayshaun and rip play 33-35 minutes a night against everyone and forsaking the growth of our young guys. They learn nothing by watching the old guard run up and down the court, the old pistons who have rings and crap.
This team needs a point guard, it needs a back to the basket post player and it needs more stable team rotations and the coach needs to eat his pride a bit and lose a game or two for the sake of giving the younger guys some run.
come on you know why cant bench tay & rip. If we do then this summer nobody will want them, they will all be like “so why didnt detroit play tay & rip. Hmm they must be hurt. Or even worse, they got old.” youre right we got to give up some pieces to get piece, but if we bench tay & rip that means we’ll never be able to move them this summer.
As we get closer to the end of the season, look for Q to sit Tay & Rip more minutes, the reason being, with a wasted season, we want to retain their trade value by decreasing their minutes so they dont get hurt.
We need a point, we need a power forward and we need a center. We cant expect Ben Wallace to start next year even if he doesnt retire.
We have to play our tradable pieces.
I’m convinced Joe D thinks this team is great as it is, and dont need no fixing. All we need to do is start next year healthy.
I’m also convinced that BG and CV are what you see is what you get. BG has a reputation of being a “clutch player.” That he knocks it down “when it counts.” I think this idea of a clutch player is bogus. Nobody remembers all the times that Lebron misses the buzzer beater, but they do remember that one time he did it, so now he’s a “clutch player.” Same with BG. He’s an excellent 3 shooter, and because of it, at the end of games, he was given the ball because a lot of times you need a 3 to go into overtime. But nobody remembers all the 3’s he missed for the bulls.
Same with all players, Gordon, Villanueva, Daye, Summers, Jerebko, etc. They need to EARN the playing time, I don’t want it handed to them on a platter. Look at JJ, he did what he could in the minutes given, and is a better player for having earned his time.
Back to the basket scorer? sure, but those sort of players aren’t thrown around lightly so it will take some creative work to get one.
Don’t have a point guard? Rodney Stuckey? This thing started circling at the beginning of the season that Stuckey should be a shooting guard and is not a point guard. Have you watched his play recently? His assists are up, and his chemistry with Rip is really good.
I don’t think Joe D thinks this team is great as it is. Why else would he be ringing around seeking trade partners?
You know what’s sad? I watch these games and I don’t even feel like BG and CV are a part of this team. I mean, they play for the Pistons, but it just feels like they don’t belong, or they’re being borrowed or something. It really makes me mad that Joe spent almost all of the extra money we had on two guys that aren’t doing sh*t. If nothing happens from now and the beginning of next season, this team is going to blow again next year. At some point you have to stop playing the “injury” card and just admit that you suck, and you’re currently one of the worst teams in the NBA
CV and BG are gettin paid. Jonas should be getting paid more than both of these suckers. I agree with Pistons 4 Life – they don’t fit the Piston mold. No excuses – they are decent role players at best – and they did not show up this year.
James from Australia – absolutely killing me man – The Bobcats are poised to win a championship before the Pistons – they just have to wait for Cleveland to have all five starters get injured and for Boston to get older and for Miami to stop getting better and for Milwaukee – yea – Milwaukee to stop bustin that ass.
I think Matt Millen rubbed off on our boy Joe D – we are fucked a bit – mate. I’d have a better outlook if I lived in the land down under too – right now I just live in “the underground”.
you know edt rick mahorn said it best this team is bad because of the talen because the team is deep the team is bad because there is no identity and that’s not joe d fault…when we trade grant hill the team after that with jerry stackhouse, ben wallace jud buchler ettc had to identity…after the next year there identity was going to work when they brought in cliff robinson corliss damon jones rebracha varda dana barros and stackhouse and ben were the leaders…..when rip and chauncey came the house of the team was already setup rip and chauncey were just counterpieces….n ben,charlie v,jonas stuckey austin daye, summers, bynum r your foundation….guys like maxy rip tay,kwame wilcox you seen who they are they our who they are…rip and tay are vets who should be on contenders…maxy is a role player and kwame and wilcox is who they are….the other guys have to get together along with the draft class i get an identity…joe has to do what he did in 02 and mix the young with the new in 02 he had some savy vets along with some misfits
james, go read that joe dumars interview.
Joe is really happy with Charlie V, Stuckey, Jerebko, Ben Gordon, Daye and Maxiell.
He wants to trade away Prince and Hamilton so as a team we can get younger and even better.
Can wait until we get rid of Prince, Hamilton, and big ben retires. Finally we’ll have the team that Joe Dumars wanted. No defense! Because in the “new nba” defense doesn’t matters.
I wonder if someone has ever scored 200 points in a game before. The pistons will do it one day. Oh, I dont mean the pistons will score 200. they’ll have 200 points scored on them.
By the way the pistons do hold the record for most points scored, 186 vs denver in 1983.
Defence wins champions. If Joe Dumars believe it no more, we will be another Suns or Knicks instead of the Pistons that we all love for long.