Bucked in Milwaukee

by | Nov 1, 2009 | 35 comments

For the second consecutive night the Pistons controlled the first half and came out lifeless after the break. That’s two giveaways,  as Detroit lost to the Bucks in Milwaukee’s season opener 85-96.

Key Points:

  • If you missed this game and caught the Pistons home opener then just check this off the list.  Saturday night’s loss was almost identical to what went wrong at the Palace against the Thunder.
  • Ben said it best: “We can’t afford to come out and take off the first five minutes,” said Ben Wallace, who finished with eight points and 10 rebounds. “We got ourselves into a dogfight and they took advantage of it.” Via The Detroit News
  • Pistons aside, go pick up Brandon Jennings in your fantasy teams.  Not only did this rookie almost put up a triple-double the other night he pretty much  single-handedly turned a 49-38 halftime deficit into a 74-63 lead going into the fourth. He scored 14 points during a 19-4 run, and he had 16 points in the quarter. This likely rookie of the year dropped 24 total on Detroit and was fun to watch.  He put Stuckey to shame a couple times down the floor, specifically in the third when Rodney went in for a floater that missed and Jennings picked up his rebound, took it to the other end and put up a left handed floater right back in Stuck’s face.
  • “I’m very pleased with our defensive effort,” Kuester said. “We’ll get better offensively before it’s all over.” Via The Detroit Free Press.
  • Second half failure on offense and defense.  The Pistons allowed the Bucks a free reign  to score 36 points and shoot 68.4% in the third quarter.
  • Why the Bucks crowd felt the need to boo Charlie Villanueva is beyond me.  He didn’t leave and go to a rival for more money, the Bucks never offered him a contract.  Give the guy a break .  Charlie scored 12 points on 4-8 shooting with 6 boards in 23 minutes on the floor.  He helped spark the listless Pistons in the fourth quarter.  Charlie V foul watch – 5 on the night.

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  • No Blaha on the broadcast, they didn’t tell us why, but he was likely filling his MSU responsibilities.  Mark Champion did a fine job on the call.
  • I’m wondering if  Charlie V a good three point shooter, because he sure is taking a ton of them.
  • Say what you will about Kwame Brown, he puts so much effort out every game that it’s refreshing. He finished with 4 boards and a steal.
  • Burn for Jonas Jerebko, who I have noticed at the home games is the girls replacement for Goldie Locks himself Walter Herrmann.  His first name is Jonas but he’s got some fans in Detroit that would rival the Jonas Brothers. Jonas played six minutes and picked up 2 fouls and 2 boards.
  • I always get a kick out of watching Carlos Delfino playing against Detroit no matter what team he’s on.  He always has something to prove and does whatever he can to make his point, good or bad.  He’s starting for the Bucks and I wish him well, but the Pistons usually get the best of him. Delfino finished with 5 points on 2-for-7 shooting.
  • Jason Maxiell had the Milwaukee crowd wowed with a thunder dunk.  Remember when Maxie would come in and spark the team with making plays?  Maybe it came back against the Bucks.  Two ridiculous back to back blocks at end of the first half for Jason.
  • They mentioned on the broadcast that the Guards are carrying the scoring load.  Isn’t that what we expected?  Or are we going to rely on Kwame and Ben?  Tayshaun and Charlie have to help the little guys out.
  • Stuckey scored 13 points on 6-for-19 shooting, looked good in the first half as you can tell from the nice effort and and one below but had difficulties with Jennings and poor shot selection after the break.  Give him credit for 8 assists, something Pistons fans were worried about.  I am a fan of Rodney but sometimes his decisions to drive the lane in the crowd and get stuffed by the big men wears me down.
Video Courtesy of The NBA and The Detroit Pistons
  • Big Ben Wallace had another great night for the Pistons, just 2 points shy of a double-double with 10 boards and 8 points on the night.
  • NO Wilcox or Daye?  I think we needed Chris to give us some inside presence, especially since the front court want really able to do much.
  • You can see how everything just stopped in the second half by the assist stat.  Detroit had 12 at the half and 17 on the night.
  • Outrebounded 26-29.
  • Ben Gordon led the Pistons again with 26 points on 8-for-15 shooting with 3 assists and 2 boards.  Who says the guy plays no D, Gordon statch the ball 3 times against Milwaukee and has been looking like he’s trying to fit into Detroit’s (used to be) defensive mold.

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  • Will Bynum 10 points, 2 assists and a board in 20 minutes.
  • We need a bit more from Tayshaun, especially with Rip out.  He scored 12 on 6-for-12 shooting with 3 assists and 2 boards.  I’m not asking him to put up 20 a night, though I know he can, he just needs to spark the team when he’s on the floor.
  • It’s like a Jekyll and Hyde thing, fun to watch in the first half and a nightmare in the second.
  • Hopefully the two days of “rest” will help Detroit straighten things out before they host Dwight Howard and the Magic Tuesday night.
  • Even if you don’t want to, watch the highlights simply to enjoy the talent that rookie Brandon Jennings displayed Saturday night. Still waiting on the NBA to post them, but here are the first half highlights.

As I was catching up on my Tweeting, I noticed this from Charlie Villanueva “feeling like crap today, I’m so sick right now.” That was twittered today at 11 AM, hopefully that’s the reason for his woes on court. Feel better @CV31, we need you.


  1. N1ck

    Nicely said.
    And some of the fans have to stop bitchin’ and support our team even in the hard times.

  2. Ronnie D.

    I agree, I’ve noticed Charlie V. taking a lot of 3 pointers. He needs to move in about 5 ft where I think he can drop them like its hot all night. He also seemed very sketchy last night. Maybe it was playing in front of his old home crowd or against his old team but he did not look crisp. Ben W. is playing well and doing what we brought him here for but he’s still a sellout in my eyes. Dumbass should have never left. I think RIP not being in the starting lineup and not having somebody like Ben G. coming off the bench is really hurting us and I hope Joe D. realizes this and doesnt trade RIP half-way through the season. Two tough loses in two nights, but I confidant we will get the cogs in the right place.

  3. KleenGee

    Great ball movement for the Pistons. They got some bad calls (Stuckey’s drive to the basket and Ben being called for blocking in the 2nd half were both lame calls that changed the games momentum)

    Just curious: I thought that Kue was going with Kwame and Ben to start. It was touted as a way to set the defensive tone of the game.

    As soon as CV31 got healthy, he became a starter. I know that Kwame hurt his hand, but he’s playing now. Is he playing hurt? I’d like to see Charlie come off the bench with his offensive spark.

    Give Kwame the start and move Ben to PF

  4. 313Spectator

    Well written Nat.

    Ahhhh, the anguish…

    Hopefully there is a trade in the works, Tayshaun days in Detroit may be over, as well as Rips. Charlie is a role player, he doesn’t player with a enough emotion for me.

    Why is Kuester doing the Micheal Curry and running the 34/35 year old vets 30 plus minutes a night.

    Why was Deron Washington released? We need to trade/release Chucky and sign Deron. Why is Stucky jacking up more 3’s than free throws?

    Why aren’t the rookies playing? Daye is better than Prince already, Summers is better than Maxiell, Jerebricko is better than Charlie (Especially more intense).

    Stuckey plays scared, he is jacking up waaaaaaaaay to many shots, at most he should take 10-12 shots.

    Charlie is softer than wet tissue. This guy needs to grow up and be a f*cking man!

    Ben Gordon is definitely playing good ball! Bynum is playing good ball too, just need’s more clock, and to run the offense, get in our sets quicker.

    Wilcox needs atlest 28-30 minutes a game!

    The starting line up should be..

    C. Chris Wilcox
    PF Ben Wallace
    SF Austin Daye
    SG Ben Gordon
    PG Rodney Stucky

    The Bench Rotation Should Be

    C Kwame Brown
    PF Maxiell/Charlie V
    SF Summers/Jeribricko
    SG Rip
    PG Bynum

    Tayshaun is done, I’m tired of seeing him give a lack luster effort in the Piston, red, white, and blue.

    Rip days as a Piston are done too, his bad whinning attitude is infecting the other players, he is like a cancer.

    This team needs to play 12 players a night, to be effective.
    The teams strength is it’s atheleticism and depth,and right now,neither one of those characteristics are being displayed.

    Pistons need to trade Rip Hamilton & Tayshaun Prince for Chris Bosh & Amir Johnson. Sign back Deron Williams, drop Sucky Atkins and play the young blood.

    If Charlie V isn’t careful, he could get package up, I don’t care what kind of skin disease you have, grab some f*ckin boards dude damn! Stop jacking up threes! The only person that has the green light to jack up 3’s is Gordon, and Daye.

    Every one else in the league that is set to be a contender is playing there Rookies, San Antonio, Orlando, Denver etc.

    Kuester needs to get the molasses out his ass, cut the positivity crap, and tell it like it is! The Pistons are playing soft and horrible.

    Trade Rip & Tay. Release Chuckles, play the young blood, stop jacking up threes, Bench Charlie, Give the Old Ben Wallace a break and start playing some damn defense!

    PS. Love the SITE NAT.


    • pistonsfan101

      WORD Brother!
      OMG I wish that happens!!! 🙂

  5. 313Spectator


    I meant to say sign back Deron Washington NOT Deron Williams!

    Lol. I wish. But seriously WTF Detroit!

    Lets get it 2gether!

  6. C-Quense

    I’ve heard people talking, “Villanueva is the new Sheed”. Ridicolous!

    • 313Spectator

      Charlie V is far from the new sheed.

      At least Sheed had some heart & attitude..

      Oh yeah, she helped anchor a great defense for years..

      Charlie couldn’t anchor the bottom of the BENCH!

  7. HIME1

    I didnt like the way they slept in the second half..I really think Stuckey is selling himself short.He is big gaurd out there and he just bulldoses to the basket witch seems to eliminate most of his passing options, he should take a page from Mr. Billups and punish pint guards on the post he can post on any guard and just tries the oppisite.
    I hope they try to put that in his game for his size and strength he should be more of a demensional player…
    Go Pistons!

  8. Dhrumil

    313Spectator, Are you on crack? If that was our starting lineup we wouldnt win more than 10 games this year. Rip’s whining attitude???? RIP BRINGS LEADERSHIP TO THE TEAM AND HE SEAMS LIKE SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO WIN! But i do agree with you on charlie v, he doesn’t really care to win or lose, shows no emotion. Worst 37 million ever spent by Joe D. I believe there is a trade coming. I think Charlie and Will Bynum to Utah for Boozer. Even though Boozer only has a year left on his contract, it will put us back in the race for the title. With Boozer, Rip, and Gordon. That will be like getting sheed from Atlanta 6 years ago.

  9. BennyB.

    Stuckey,Rip.Tay,Ben are all skilled enough to score 30 points. All the scoring IS on the guards.
    Charlie needs to start scoring a little more then he is.

    But say Charlie gets hurt or something…Who is the go to guy in the paint??
    Lord knows its not BenWalllace. Or Brown, Max, Wilcox. I dont think one of those players have ever scored more then 25 in a game.
    Prince is our 2nd best guy in the post. We need a other skilled big man in the paint.

    Like it said, they score and start off wonderful. but we need to go longer then 12 mins.

    • Amber

      Benny was ballin. He made like 2 baskets, and all his free throws. My papi can score now. lol Naw really, he can. Kind of.

  10. Armand

    Stuckey in my opinion is afraid of loosing his starting position (who wouldnt be with Bynum and Gordon coming of the bench) so instead of letting the game come to the need of his talent he is trying to do too much every time he touches the ball remember the orlando series two years ago when Billups was hurt Stuckey played great and made very good desicions not to mention that he had Sheed and Mcdyess starting so I guess if Mr Kue figures out that Ben Wallace is not the future PF or C of our team (not to take anything away from Ben cause he is playin like its ’05) and can figure out who deserves the starting positions which in my opinon at C would be Kwame, at PF Wilcox and at SF Tay or Charlie (thats if he actualy start playing like Joe D thinks he can) and we get Hamilton back I know Stuckey will be just fine

  11. Armand

    Dhrumil, 313spectator must be on crack with that startin line up
    Oh and dont we all know what the record was last year when Rip was hurt or benched and maybe its just a coincidence but whats the name of that guy that got hurt at the end of fhe first game which we won and couldnt play the second and third which we lost. Help me 313spectator cause i cant think of his name at the moment. Oh, it must be the guy with “whining attitude”

    • 313Spectator

      @ Armand

      Dude you must be on crack, or smoke good weed. Because you just agreed with my starting line up with exception to Ben Gordon and Austin Daye.

      Rip Can’t dribble, he is turn over prone, he doesn’t get to the free throw line.

      Tayshaun is soft and ineffective.

      Ben Gordon is light years better and more effective than RIP. The only reason why we lost without Rip is because coach Kue’s poor rotation.

      We lost 18.3 points with nothing to compensate for it. Hell when the Lakers Lost Gasol what happened Genious??? They lost to Dallas!!!

      My point exactly!! But if we were to trade RIP and get something in return, we would win games just the same!

      Like I said, his best days are behind him, as well as Tayshauns!!

      Wait a minute trading Bynum & Charlie for Boozer is a Crackhead move dude! Just trade Tay for him straight up!

      We need to trade Tay to Portland and Rip To Toronto!!

      It’s BOSH TIME! Check Bosh’s number this year people!!!

      Oh yeah, @ Armand dude watch basketball, stop just staring at the TV. Rip Hamilton hurts this team more than he helps it.

  12. dinj

    I was at the game last night (Bucks fan). I was also mystified by the booing of CV, but I think that was a loud 2% rather than a representation of all of us. He got a pretty nice ovation when he was introduced at the beginning.

    You could tell the Pistons were a little lost in the 3rd quarter when the Bucks started to go to the pick and roll with Jennings. Gordon is going to be a stud for you guys. Looks like he picked up right where he left off in the playoffs last year.

  13. Amer ican Prince

    dinj it looks like Brandon Jennings is going to be a stud for you guys too.

    313Spectator I dont think you have a good grasp on Rip’s game. I agree with a lot of what you said, especially about Tayshaun being soft. He also has the mentality that he’s an All-star but he doesn’t really have the talent of other all stars, and he also seems to get his points through selfishness.and only relies on jump shots

    In terms of Rip he’s a way better all around player than Ben Gordon. Ben Gordon is a glorified role player. It just so happens his role is scoring rather than on of the less publicized stats. Rip is a lot less selfish than Ben gordon and stuckey. He is willing to pass the ball when someone else has a better opportunity. And knows you reward your big men. Something none of the other guards really understand. and one of the best things about Rip is that he has size plus he’s still fast for being big. This means he can’t be taken advantage of on defense unlike gordon. Ben Gordon gets abused on defense because he’s number 1 small and number 2 not a very good defender.

    And one other thing you mentioned was bosh. I’m watching the Toronto Orlando game and if you could hear the boos from them and you saw Bosh’s face it looks pretty bad. He looked at them he just tried to stare down the crowd when they booed him. Then sat on the bench with a mad look on his face Not my first choice to come here but there’s a good possibility he gets traded. And I think he’s the best we could get. My only concern would be a long term contract to him when we could get something better for our team. But trading Rip for him would make me mad because whats the point of having a scoring big guy when Ben Gordon, Will Bynum, and Rodney Stuckey are all scorers who don’t have the drive to really get their teammates involved? That’s why we need defensive big.

    I just want to say I think the only thing we really need to do on offense is really look for our 2nd third and 3rd options. Instead of trying to go one on 5 all the time. On defense? well i would need a whole post to talk about that

  14. Dtownbasketball313

    Why are we giving up on CV already he can play its only THREE GAMES INTO THE SEASON he has put up 40 pts in an NBA game and averaged 17 ppg and 7 rebs last yr and he is young.Also trading rip is a bad idea him and BG will give ppl headaches but i do think we should trade tay i believe we have seen his best i think his defense is overrated any SF with good skill kills him and he’s not aggresive enough on the offensive end but we cant get a player to make us contenders by only trading tay so if we package him with maxiell and a 1st round pick we could get sumthing mayb AMARE STOUDAMIRE he wants out and phoenix doesnt want him to leave for nuthing they kno theyre not winning the championship this yr and they are old so they get 2 young talented players and an extra 1st round pick to help them rebuild and our lineup would b STUCKY BG RIP CV AMARE STOUDAMIRE and phoenix gets to rebuild with young talented players its a longshot but it sounds good

    • Amber

      Charlie is terrible.

      Why are you focusing on the past?

      AI was also great until he came to Detroit. Not everyone works with Detroit’s playing style.

      Defense is important in the D, Charlie doesn’t know a thing about defense.

      Charlie and Amare? Are you serious? Have you not seen BIG BEN play lately???????????????????

  15. Dtownbasketball313

    there is talent in this yrs draft so it would b just as good for phoenix as detroit its a pretty even trade i dnt c y they wouldnt do it

  16. Dhrumil

    I agree with you Armand. 313spectator really doesn’t know his basketball. If you can’t see, we can’t win a game without Rip. The first pass always goes to Rip on almost every offensive position, and then Rip either scores or finds someone else who has a better chance to score then he does. I don’t see how Rip hurts the team? That’s funny that you say that. Rip is the face of the team right now. But Stuckey really has to set the plays up instead of just trying to score all the time, i know he wants to score but hes a POINT guard. And Will Bynum puts up shots wayyyy to quick. He’s shooting when theres 18 seconds on the shot clock left. Will needs to move the ball around a little, hes not Kobe. And I’m not giving up on Charlie V, He just doesn’t play D or grab boards. He’s all about scoring, we need another defending big man like Marcus Camby.

  17. Armand

    313spectator, Whats wrong with smoking some really good weed, it certanly looks like the pi”STONES” have been smoking some the last too games during halftime cause they been coming out dead at the third quarter
    @313Spectator u r right Ben is better then Rip, that is a better 3 point shooter and a better of the bench player. Anything else I think we all know who is better so tradin rip i think it would be just as bad of a move as tradin billups last year and the reasons are because he is the best to come of of screens, one of the best shooting guards in the NBA and did i mention he can defend pretty darn well and o yeah he is one of the best athleets in NBA plus it looks like he has as many good years left on him as does his contract
    so if anyone needs to be traded that we can maybe get someone for him it would have to be Tay (allthough he is our best post player) but if we can put him in a package with someone else and get Bosh or Stoudamire in return then I guess it would be a good trade. As far as gettin boozer, doesnt seem to me that he has the right attitude to be a piston but instead he may be the one to have a whinning attitude

  18. Armand

    Oh 313 i forgot to mention that i didnt agree with three of your startin 5, technically 4 cause i said wilcox at the 4 and not at the 5

  19. Amber

    You all need to stop talking shit about Rip. He is amazing and if you could all remember back to game one, he and Tay worked very well together. I like Rip starting and Ben coming off the bench.

    Johnny needs to not be impressed with defense that only lasts one half.

  20. TJ

    What the hell is this shit about Rip being a lockerroom cancer? If anything, the first three games have shown he’s a quality leader who expects a lot out of his teammates. Seriously, the first game there was a more concentrated effort defensively, they did a better job of getting teammates involved. Yes, Rip is guilty of playing too much one-on-one basketball at times, but not nearly as much as Bynum and Stuckey decided to do last night. Rip is a proven winner. He’s won at the collegiate level. He’s won at the professional level. He’s won pretty much everywhere he’s gone, and his teammates would be wise to listen to him. The guy simply wants to win.

    Tay is too much “go with the flow” for what this team needs in leadership. There’s no fire there, he just allies himself with the majority. Normally, the majority is hard-working. Not anymore. He just quietly goes about his business not having a serious impact on the game anymore.

    As for Villanueva, watching his body language, he looks like a guy more upset with himself then being heartless. He seems to take things too personally and allows foul trouble and early misses/mistakes to get in his head. It’s sad because I don’t think it’s that he doesn’t care. I think it’s because he cares too much, and he’s trying too hard to prove himself that it’s hurting his game. Patience, Big V. Go out there, play your game, have some fun, and success will find you. Don’t get down for every foul or every mistake you make.

  21. The Fluidics

    yup, George called the State game in the afternoon, that’s why he didn’t call the Pistons game Saturday night.

  22. debo_toledo

    how is kuester gonna sit back during that whole outrageous Jennings run and not call a single f*ucking timeout?!?!?!? He let that go on WAY to long. Manage the momentum sir.

  23. Annie

    I am with you on the comment about Stuckey. That’ what bugs me about him too. Sometimes he does the whole “wait for the shot clock to go down” thing and then stuffs everything with his failed attempts to do everything himself instead of using the time to get a pass to a teammate in a better position.

  24. pistons 4 life

    I think with half of a new team and a new coaching staff I’m going to need about 20 games to see what kind of team this is going to be. There’s no way they have the chemistry needed to play well consistently yet. So even though losses are always painful, I’m going to cut them some slack for the first quarter or so of this season.

    Watching a lot of the other games in the first week of this season I’d put the Pistons in about the middle of the pack in the eastern conference.

    Bottom line, even though they’re not as good as they used to be, they’re going to be entertaining to watch for the most part because it seems like everyone actually gives a crap and they’re giving it all they got every night….. for now. Hopefully that doesn’t change. I’ve always said I can handle a team losing if they played hard and didn’t mail it in like last year.

  25. Sable

    We’ve lost two in a row now and all that hope you feel at the beginning of the season suddenly morphs to realism. So what do we expect this season? Is it a rebuilding season?

    In the Oklahoma game, I was pleased to see Austin Daye get in the game, but the rookie got victimized and it helped springboard the Thunder’s competitiveness. We were pretty firmly in control of that game up until that point.

    In the past, I was happy to sacrifice wins to see Amir Johnson get on the court and play. I think I’ll be in much the same mode this season because I’m not quite sure we’re a contender yet.

    We’re built on the blueprint that got us a championship in 2004. Alas, at that time the league was dominated by offenses where superstars hoarded the ball. The league has changed and there is much much more ball movement. It is much better basketball, but it also makes it harder for teams that hope to win with their defense.

    These past two games made me appreciate Rip Hamilton and at this particular moment, I’m not sure we can trade him. He’s basically our only big guard who can get his shot off with more consistency than anyone else. The other guards had plenty of shots blocked when they got into the middle of the paint and it really hurt us because it sent both teams running with numbers against us. It was really a killer in both games. Stuckey and Bynum really need to develop consistent tear drops and that should make all the difference for them.

    I can’t wait until Rip gets back for a second reason and that is because I like Ben Gordon anchoring the bench. Without him out there, the bench seemed a little unfocussed offensively with guys trying to do too much all on their own.

    Charlie V isn’t quite assimilated into the offense yet, but once he gets comfortable, I think the offense will look much much better. To this point, he’s been an afterthought in the offense, a bail out and often the passes have come late. As a consequence, he’s rushed his shots. I’d like to see some pick and pops run for him just to get him going and to also spread the floor.

    What else? In general, the bigs have played pretty well. I don’t know what it is, whether it’s something in the Detroit water, or it’s Arnie Kandor’s magic, or Mason’s introductions hype him up but Ben Wallace looks like such a better player in Detroit than he did elsewhere. He’s not the same player he was, but he’s still plenty effective.

    Finally, this is a Larry Brown offense. When Larry Brown himself got here, the Pistons struggled. If you go back and watch the 2004 Championship DVD, Dumars talks about bringing in a new coach and new faces. He talked about that adjustment period and the unfortunate fact that you’ve got to go through that adjustment period during the season. Thus, what I’m looking for is improvement.

    The players looked frustrated in the past two games, but when they get more comfortable and are able to utilized their counters, their 2nd and 3rd options, I think they will look much butter on offense.

    So don’t lose hope just yet.

  26. rai

    if three games were the basis of the performance of the season then we should hand the championship to the celtics, and get the next season started already.

    I didn’t think some detroit ‘fans’ would be hating these much without giving the new look pistons at least half the season to prove their worth.

    trade rip, trade tay, bench stuckey, bench charlie. is this the season’s battle cry of the piston’s fans instead of ‘DEEEEEEEEEETROIT BASKETBAAAAAAAAL!!!’ ????

    although some of you have valid points, you should also have to consider that these are not the same pistons we had in the past years. who knows how well or how bad rip, tay and benW will mesh with the new faces.

    so please, give them their time to prove themselves.

  27. Drew

    Was Ben really 4 for 4 from the free throw stripe? Am I reading this right?! 😉

  28. Chungi

    You do,he trippled his Free Throw Percentage 😉

  29. walt

    b wallace is playing some serious ball lately. good no great acqusition for 1.3 mill this year. if he can avg. 7-9 boards a game and get 5-8 points then pistons came out huge winners with that move. stuckey should get 15 shots a game i feel. he gets those close layups and the short jumpers alot, better percentage shots than most of our guys get. charlie needs to play down low a little, not post up, but get close to the hoop and square up. we got gordon, rip, tay to play outside, we need somebody to get some easy shots. not that wallace or brown will. why dont we play wilcox some, he can get some close shots.


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