If you have followed this site for a while you know that I’m a big Joe Dumars fan. In fact I attribute my love for basketball in part to Joe Dumars while he was on and off the court. So when I saw this piece on Curry and Dumars, which surprisingly aired during the Pistons’ five game slide and the Rip/AI dilemma, I was shocked to hear what I heard.
I know what Michael is saying because he’s acted it out – much to our dismay – but Joe’s comments were plain disturbing.
Say it ain’t so Joe…
DEFINDED ROLES!!!! Really?
I’m still not convinced Rip going to the bench will end our nightmare either.
Someone please wake me up when this is over.
Natalie, I wouldn’t be too disturbed about this piece. These are the same clips of Joe D. that they’ve been playing all season. You can see on the chair that Joe is sitting on that it’s a Suns logo from a game earlier this season. So what he’s saying was from the beginning of the season when things weren’t this bad. I don’t know that he’d be saying the same things now.
Too many ignorant Pistons fans have been caught up and gassed us in that one title nearly 5 calender years ago (“IN JOE WE TRUST!”).
I think Michael Curry is a very bad head coach this year. But who’s fault was it to hire him? After only ONE YEAR of being an assistant? Nobody can possibly be ready for that, and this is ink on Joe’s hands! And by throwing a wrench into Curry’s plans two games into the season, what the ****? Does Joe WANT to see Curry fail? It’s obvious that Curry doesn’t have the stones to be an effective HC, at least not yet.
Look, before I get pounced on, I’ll say off by saying that I live Iverson. I do. But that man is baggage. There is too much egos on this team to placate, not enough minutes to give, too many SG’s and not many real big men. And as much as I despised Rip’s comments last week, and as tough as we have been on him, this has to be the biggest transition of his career. He’s been giving a reduced responsibility. And he feels less important. Sending him to the bench in favor for a man who was thought to be a one year rental can’t possibly do any good. Maybe Rip begrudgingly accepted this role, knowing that his time in Detroit is coming to a close. There’s just too much uncertainty.
So I guess the question is, when are Pistons fans (in general) going to hold Joe accountable? I know that you are starting to change your tone a little bit, as I vividly remember the numerous “In Joe We Trust” themed blog entries, mainly from 05-07. What makes this blog great is seeing how we as fans evolved. We’re a little more cyncial now, and now we’re finally placing the blame where it needs to be placed. Not on Darko, not on Flip (although he wasnt the greatest HC), not on Chauncey, and probably not on Curry much either. It starts up top.
And eventually, Joe’s grace period will expire. He needs to prove his worth again.
Understandable but doesn’t it make it just as bad if he didn’t do something after all of that? A sign of hope, but still reality Pistons 4 life.
(ouch, i really need to proofread before i submit)
i think that makes me sound like somewhat of a condescending ass. lol. i’d replace “ignorant” with “naive.”
I like Joe still, but what I don’t like is how he’s been seen as fool-proof for these years. Case in point, the panic signing of Nazr.
And let’s just say that I’m not a fan of reclamation projects/half-assed signings (Nazr, Flip, Kwame (although he hasn’t been too bad), Ratliff, etc… i think he’s trying way too hard to find another Ben Wallace.
Hey, you’re right. It was all Joe Dumars’ fault that all this happened in the first place.
pistons 4 life earlier in the season when I heard Joe say those things that is what made me give Curry some slack. I was like okay Joe wants a guy to try something new, take chances, and probably more than anything develop the young guys by letting them play. But Curry doesn’t seem to be very inventive as a coach. In fact he seems to be falling into the same pattern as all the other coaches just with less experience. And I’ve said I’m not going to like Curry because I’m going to blame him and Joe D for Lindsey Hunter not being here this year. That is wrong to no end. Lindsey should not be in any uniform besides a pistons one. He should of ended his career here.
Ricardo I’m with you, I need to proofread my posts too. But I’m not gonna. But you bring up a lot of good points about the team. I agree with a lot of what you said
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not supporting what Joe or Curry said in that clip. I’m just pointing out that FSN is once again using that old footage to try to tell a story and make it seem like things aren’t as bad as they are.
^^^^Just like Pistons.com trying to convince us that nothing is wrong and it’s all transitional. Don’t they know we are semi intelligent fans here?
We as fans deserve to be upset when we don’t think our team is performing to it’s capabilities, but I also think this shows just how blessed we’ve been these past 6/7 years. So far Curry obviously hasn’t proved to be a good coach signed by Joe D, but Joe’s positives far out weigh his negatives since he’s been our GM.
We’re bound to have a down year or two, it’s impossible to be a top 4 team every year. Besides San Antonio, there is no other team in the league we’d trade places with since Joe D took over.
No matter what happens this year, the Iverson trade was a good trade b/c there is no way we were winning it all if we stayed with the same group…especially considering how well Cleveland, Boston and Orlando are playing. Stuckey wouldn’t have developed nearly as much this year with Billups aboard and we’d have the same team back next year, likely minus Sheed, and with no salary cap flexibility until 2011. Now we have so many options through trades and free agency over the next 2 years to reload quickly because of the trade.
Believe me, it hurts to see our team suffer on the court this year, but I’d rather take one down year (which will still be a 4/5 seed) for a better chance at contending again soon, rather then slowly fade like the Bad Boys teams after they won it all.
HE’S A GAY ASS
I normally don’t reply on need4sheed but i always read the articals.Here is my view on the situation, joe d messed up and coach curry can’t manage a lineup.I mean one game you start amir and he plays great the next game he dosent play a minute.Also j max and afflao should play on a more consistent basis. These guys bring so much energy and hustle when there on the court. Also i know will bynum and herman give good minutes but you have to play your best players on a consistent basis.
Here is how i would manage my lineup:
Bench players that should play quality minutes:
In the end i would have liked to traded chauncy for a bigman but everone said the pistons need a go to player.Well look how a go to scorer has worked out.The pistons have already dug themselves into a big enough hole they should stop while there at it.
Sorry James but I have to dissent. I think it’s an utter waste and tragedy, the mismanagement of the talent that we have had going on this season and I also do not agree with you about the AI trade, I said then and I still say now, he was not a good fit for this team. If you had to trade for someone trade for someone who would have been a good fit, I’m sorry but AI just doesn’t fit that bill imo. I’ve yet to see anything to cause me to change that stance.
I also think you are discounting the potential for development that younger guys could have had from having Chauncey around longer. But of course that’s just conjecture and we’ll never know. I liked what I was seeing at the very beginning of the season before the trade though, when bench guys like Hermann were getting more play time and kicking ass with those minutes, that was an improvement from what Flip did.
Ricardo you didn’t sound condescending to me and I think you made good points too.
I wonder what these young hot studs that James thinks are going to come here are actually thinking about this team with what they are seeing from the Pistons these days? You really think they’ll be falling all over themselves to come here vs other offers with what they are seeing happening with the coaching right now? Sure I’m sure there’s some who’ll go to the highest bidder but money being equal, where would you go, to a solid team who has a coach doing good things? Or are you going to go someplace that looks like the 3 Stooges are writing the line ups?
Personally I’m much more of a fan of take the time to develop what you have that’s younger vs trying to load the ticket with purchased mercenaries. But that’s just me.
I think Pistons fans are just not realistic.
Yes I have complained about Johnson not getting more of an opportunity to shoot when he is on the court, but in all honesty that is a judgement call. It is not like he is out there with guys who can’t score.
I would just prefer to see him get the opportunity to show what he can do on offense, whether it be with the Pistons or some other team. But I don’t fault Curry for not giving him that chance given the circumstances. Saunders was no different.
Johnson was just drafted by the wrong team period. His career would have flourished if he had been drafted a lottery team, even in the 2nd round or if he had gone to LSU for a year or two then come out.
As far as what Joe D. is saying here, I have absolutely no problem with it at all. Curry will be the Pistons coach for a long time. It is a learning process. I don’t care how prepared and organized you are a rookie is still a rookie and will go through growing pains.
I think this whole thing about Curry and Joe D. is much to do about nothing.
I have emailed several well known NBA writers and they have all agreed that this is a transition year for the Pistons and Joe D. knew that going in.
This is the beginning of rebuilding! Rip will be gone and other vets will follow suit. At the end of the year when its all said and done Sheed gone, Dyess gone (never should of came back honestly), Iverson will not be back either! All this cap money they gonna have will not land no one special, all because no superstar wants to be on a rebuilding team they wanna chase championships!!!
It was fun while it lasted!!
If you want to talk about accountabilty, we could blame ourselves too.
+It was the fans that filled into the Palace and treated most post seaso games as if they were early season games.
+It was the fans who allowed ourselves to take the playoffs for granted and cry about 6 concecutive confrence appearences.
+It was the fans who booed their own team for (God forbid) not playing well for a couple of games in the post season when fan support is needed the most.
+It was the fans who begged and pleaded for a “superstar” from a “blockbuster trade” all summer long, then complained at the start of the season when no brash moves had occured.
+It is the now the fans who have been given what they asked for and still have nothing to do but complain. We had a rock solid team from top to bottom with a killer bench (which was being utilized to its full potential before the trade). Now we have a 42 minutes a night “superstar” who has no choice but to throw a monkey wrench into the successful sytstem based on how he plays.
+It is now the fans who are looking for a scapegoat and are blaming the top office for giving us what most of us begged for.
You know, I’ve been reading Need4Sheed for quite some time and honestly I’m disappointed with the tone of the recent articles chronicling the team’s struggles.
You people are starting to sound just like UofM Football fans this past season. So the football team has a losing season under their first season under Rich Rodriguez, and fans are calling for his head!
The fans have been so spoiled by the Wolverines’ success in football that a losing season is simply unacceptable by any means.
You Pistons fans are acting the same way with Curry.
I’m as much of a Pistons fan as everybody here, but I’m not about to start calling for Curry’s head or start blaming him or Dumars for the team’s struggles.
Why? Becuase I’m okay with a mediocre season this year if it means building a better program down the road.
Most of you aren’t looking beyond this season and are starting to act like the Pistons are suddenly worthless if they don’t make the playoffs, let alone the Conference Finals or the Finals, this year. God forbid that happening.
To you, I say lighten up.
Michael Curry is new to this, maybe a bit too new, but I admire Joe Dumars for giving him the chance and the freedom to build his coaching style. Unlike many other coaches that have come and gone, Curry doesn’t have a playbook already made. He’s still building it. The only way he’s going to know when things do and don’t work is by practicing them out on the court during the games.
Some of you are probably going to say that we shouldn’t have to deal with such inexperience. Part of me doesn’t disagree with you, but part of me also says “well too bad.”
You fans should be *happy* for the success that the Pistons have had in recent years. Many teams don’t have that kind of success. Be grateful for it, rather than act like spoiled brats when the team isn’t doing well under a new coach.
I root for the Pistons every night they play. I’m disappointed like anyone else when they lose. However, unlike some of you, I don’t get disgruntled by it. I’m not going to spout off calling for change because I don’t like what I see.
Instead, I have faith in the Pistons. I have faith in both Joe D. and Curry to make the changes and build the playbook that will make and keep the Pistons a powerhouse team.
Maybe you should embrace some perspective and humility and do the same.
Damn Jason…I must say that was well stated. I consider myself a Huge Pistons Fan and ur right, we are spoiled. I take pride in telling people that I am a Pistons Fan…especially considering the fact that I no longer live in Detroit. I am also a Lions Fan…for some reason when i tell people that…I dont get the same response. Point Being…Id much rather be thankful for a team that plays hards competes and is a proven consistent winner. Because I know things could easily be like Jason said,and I quote him.. ” Many teams dont have that kind of success”
MC is a good coach. Give him some time. There are a lot of defined roles on this team. We just have a lot of them. I think AI and Sheed will be gone after this year, snd Joe D has some money too sign some young guns or vets for one year and if they work out great, they don’t you have room to go after Bosh. After the season, it’s possible that Kander (I hope I spelled that right) could look at Boozer, and say “Joe, I think he’ll be fine in here”. That is a possibility. I think that’s what they did with Dyess when he first came. If Kander thinks Boozer is fine then we might see him here after this year. And that’s a pretty good lineup. If not, Joe D has got the flexability of cap space, draft picks to make a sign and trade or sit pat for another year. We are gonna have a winning record this year and next year. We could be Clippers fans, so it could be worse.
Be patient, we are winning, and give MC a couple years. I think he’s doing fine for his first year. Remember he’s got players, media and Joe D. He’s got a lot responsibilities to deal with. Try to work all that in and coach a NBA team at the same time, in your first year. Most of us couldn’t do it. Give him time, we are winning.
Joe D is rebuilding, but it’s not a losing effort. He’s rebuilding his own way which is better than most teams rebuild. Look what our future brings us. Stuckey, Afflalo, Max, AJ, Bynum and maybe Bosh or another pretty decent name coming in. And not too mention we got Tay and Rip for a few more (barring trade) years. Be patient, we’ll be fine.
The difference between Pistons fans and UofM fans is that we we’re winners last season. But that doesn’t discount the fact that the fans see and then state the problems that need to be fixed. I’ll tell you one of the things I’ve hated about Joe this entire time. Its something that most organizations have adopted too. Joe says that anything less than a championship is a dissapointing season. Thats the worst message to young people not to mention the players and coaching staff. To be realistic, we won’t win a title every year and I’m cool with that. I love the playoffs and thats better than not being they’re. Look at Utah, they make it to the playoffs most of the time, and have had a coach for as long as I can remember. Everyone wants to win a title Joe, but it aint going to happen every year. Find a good coach, stick with him and concentrate on making the playoffs and see what happens.
The buttom line is (”IN JOE WE TRUST!”).
No one is going to be 100% right. But, so far Joe D has been about 95% right in B-ball terms. What All the true Stones fans need to do is sat back & let it all unfold. Win, loss or draw the REAL PISTONS FANs will back OUR TEAM PERIOD!
(((((((((((((END OF DISCUSSION!))))))))))
Please remember that M. Curry was hired because he is a “Company Yes Man” and that’s all that matters to Mr. Davison Look at how many A.I jerseys have been sold since the trade! Keith L. even mentioned it on the Pistons Blog. Yes Mr. D. the place is sold out at every game and we are selling Jerseys like hotcakes! How cares if we win……Right? Now the salery cap is being lowered next year to help the owners. Mr. D. helped put that in place you know. That’s why he, the only NBA owner ever was put in the hall of fame! Pat on the back from David Stern.
I guess I don’t have to say anymore, I’m just venting
Spelled who wrong
Joe and Curry are both company men who can kiss my ass.
Yes its a business, but its the way they go about things. Chauncey should’ve had his jersey retired and Mason should be able to say B-B-B-Billups when the Nuggets come to town later in the season.
I just want to add that I think Joe D is capable of doing his job. It’s just that he has to make comapny decisions even if it mean bringing in a couple has beens now and than for a cheap price. Let’s say we pick up Dale Davis! He’s still on the free agent list and I bet we can get him cheap! We need a big guy and he’ll fit right in. 40 years old, cheap price and we can say how good….he was!
wow rip got benched dat shouldve happened a long time
da problems not gone yet
ever since ben left we’ve never had a true big man!
im sayin if rip dnt wanna come off da bench
RIP 4 Boozer utah will benefit 2 nd so will we
Baller4Life we still have an open roster spot, let’s see what happens with it, though I think we need a servicable SF backups more than another big man. And in terms of Carlos Boozer. Don’t like him and I don’t even want Joe D to go after him in free agency
listen… Rip blows and deserves to come off the bench.
lets see we win 8 of 9 with facemask on the sidelines.
then we go on a five game losing streak with facemask back in the lineup.
coincidence? i think not. besides faskmask looked pretty good with the second unit against memphis.
please trade Rip Joe D., hes worthless.
Vanalope… (Sorry for the long post)
I never said the AI trade was a good trade for this season record wise. I know we would be a better team with Billups, but my point was that even if we still had Billups we wouldn’t be good enough to win it all. Joe D has a great track record of being proactive and knowing when to let go of things…and he knew this team wouldn’t win it all as currently constructed. Remember the trade of Stack for Rip? At the time most people thought he was crazy, but Stackhouse started to decline almost immediately while Rip became a much better player. He was also smart enough not to match Ben Wallaces offer from Chicago even though Ben had been a key part of our team.
The huge part of the AI deal is that we gain $20 million in cap space this summer which will give us a much better chance to reload on the fly. If we kept Billups he would be here through 2011 as will Tay, Maxi, and Rip. We’d lose Sheed, then Dyess, yet we’d have no financial flexibility to sign FA’s (besides the MLE and veterans minimum) to improve this team. We would slowly get worse each year and it would be much more difficult to improve the team with out the flexibility we get because of the trade. Every one would be screaming about how he should have made a move earlier.
Money talks in free agency Vanalope. Joe Johnson left a great Phoenix team that almost made the finals to go to a terrible (at the time) Atlanta team. Baron Davis left the perfect system for him in Golden State to take a little more money even though had to sign with the Clips. Guys like Ray Allen and Michael Redd re-signed with their repective crappy teams due to the extra money they could offer, even though they could have gone to much better teams.
The Pistons have been the 2nd best organization in bball since Joe D took over and he has great respect among players today…don’t you think that plus a lot of money will appeal to FA’s?
Also, being under the cap allows you to be much more active in trades since you don’t have to match up salaries. That’s how the Clippers got Marcus Camby for a second round pick…because they were under the cap. With that much cap space and trade flexibility Joe D will do something to help reposition this team among the NBA elite.
AI looked pretty good coming off the bench too after he missed practice.
bobbysteels for saying that rip is a shitty player thats rediculous.Rip is a great player and was one of the main reasons that the pistons have been so good over the years.Your honestly gonna say that rip is a bad player cause were not winning games come on now.Give me a couple of good reasons to why rip sucks?
Ahhhh, that’s why we suck. Well I always blamed Joe…for getting rid of Chaunc and all, but MC is another poison to us. He’s lenient with practice. Flip was lenient. Why do we always get these lenient guys that let the Pistons do as they please? They need another LB.
rip blows because he wears a facemask, cant create his own shot, no D.
need i say more?
bobbysteals first off the mask he wears dosent determine if your good or bad.Also how can’t rip create his own shot he is the best player in the NBA right now at coming of screens.He has a nack for scoring and talk about rip playing no d look at ai rondo could drop 40 on ai.
Oh yea one more thing did i mention he is a three time all star
iverson is 10 time Allstar STARTER
Rip is a 3 time all-star off the BENCH!
i guess that means that tayshaun sucks too
Wow who ever runs this site just proved there own stupidity. JUST because this video was aired recently doesn’t mean it was made recently. This video was made at the beginning of the season while the pistons were on the Road in Pheinox, please direct your attention to the Purple wall, and the Logo on the chair. This video says NOTHING about what Joe D has thought of Curry’s recent job with the pistons. I’m sure even Joe D cant over look his beloved Mc’s mistakes over the last few weeks.
to be honest, it just looks like Joe Dumars just doesnt wanna admit is mistake. but sooner or later, hes going to have to.
FLIP SANDERS COME BACK!! WE’RE SORRY!!
Oh, and bobbysteels? Why don’t you root for the WRONG guy
PS, I bet you wear a facemask too. Filled with poop and horrible dreams
This is what i have too say. Lately i have been commenting on need 4 sheed. So heres my opinon…blaming us for losing team members (richie) is wrong we didnt run them out..wallace wanted more money and chauncey had no choice. not our fault now is it. I think joe dumars made a very wrong choice on trading chauncey..but they shouldve traded some other players that couldve gotten us a big man. We’d have a dream team again. It’s not exactly all MC’s fault either, just he has no experience. and one last thing we can blame ourselves well only some people for not cheering them on when they are in this mess. i say theyll get there motion back sometime..so until then lets not be a fan that quits when they aren’t doing good thats not a fan in the first place